Quake 2 King Of The Hill Event: Map Pool *out dated*

[VaeVictis]

*OUT DATED*
**please refer to the first post in this thread http://tastyspleen.net/quake/forums/index.php?topic=12258.0**

Alright, so I've noticed a problem with the quake 2 koth that isn't there for the quakelive version: Too many third party maps so people can just call maps the other person doesn't know all night long....

While calling a map the other person doesn't know is a good thing some times in koth, I don't see how calling Random3rdPartyMap42 is good for the structure of the event and so i proposed to Jehar the idea of using a map pool

He agreed if i can come up with a good one, BUT this is a community event and it will need the community's input!!!!

So  contribute if you know of a good dueling map that people will enjoy, we will look at it and see if it's good enough to get air time on future koth events

No instagib maps please *glares at railwolf*

Heres what i have so far:

q2dm1
q2dm3
q2dm7
q2dm8
q2duel5
ztn2dm1
ztn2dm2
ztn2dm3
ztn2dm5
whateverthefuckbloodrunis(a name would be appreciated)
ptrip
q2rdm2
q2rdm7
aeroq2/aerowalk
match1
dkshaft
q2campgrnds
colour
rene24

GGs -VaeVictis

[UUD-40]

alsowhateverthefucktheq3dm6remakeis(a name would be appreciated)

q2campgrnds ?

[VaeVictis]

No instagib maps please *glares at railwolf*

"The most important item on this map is this here armor shard" thats why

[VaeVictis]

alsowhateverthefucktheq3dm6remakeis(a name would be appreciated)

q2campgrnds ?

yes that is it thank you

[VaeVictis]

After talking a bit on IRC it seems like a map no-gos list would be more appropriate, and this might turn out to be more of a suggested map list keep some ideas coming in

[peewee_RotA]

I'm going to 100% disagree. If KotH is an event to attract new players to dueling, and you change the environment back to a strict dueling list of maps, you are being counter productive to your original goal.

Basically ask yourself this. Was having a match on dkshaft a good idea? I say yes because it exposed a new map to people, made specifically for dueling, that otherwise would have never been considered. Not only that we exposed players to maps that they normally wouldn't have played. They may not be receptive, but that is their own problem. That's why they never play the map because they are not open and KotH provided that relaxed environment to change that for a single night.

So once again, a rigid map list is counter productive.


EDIT: I'd agree with a list of restricted maps. I jokingly suggested KOTH6. I'd say that other notorious maps like that should be excluded. Space gun up, templewalk, sewers64, camp city... basically most vanilla and pygmy maps. (and yes that would include pwpipes1)

[The Happy Friar]

dsctf! 

I don't think it's on the splean though...  I should upload it.

[[BTF]Defiant!]

Suggestion..  Don't outright limit the maps. 


Instead, state the KOTH admins may reject a map if it is obscenely destructive to the fun or spirit of KOTH.   

• Even campcity, if played by two aggressive players would be a good map.
• I think PeeWee's pick of a custom map perked-up people's interest.
• Bottom line, KOTH is to encourage non-TDMers to TDM.  It removes the jerky attitudes which sometimes exist and gives the challenger an extra boost of picking the map to in turn boost their confidence.

[VaeVictis]

Aright, it's sounding like the majority of people would dislike a strict map list for Q2KOTH

I'll talk to Jehar about just laying down some ground rules to at least restrict it so we don't see maps that duel terribly being called

So far I'm thinking something along the lines of: Map must already be on the NADL server, No Instagib maps, No overly large tdm maps (examples such as maps like q2dm5, q2dm6)*, and maps on a suggested map list (made up of duel league map pools) are highly suggested

thanks for the input, keep the suggestions coming

*reason being they would promote a very hide and seek style of play and for the cast it's not good if two people cant find eachother or dont get a frag for 20 minutes

[quadz]

No overly large tdm maps (examples such as maps like q2dm5, q2dm6)*

*reason being they would promote a very hide and seek style of play and for the cast it's not good if two people cant find eachother or dont get a frag for 20 minutes

WTF... now q2dm6 is out?

I can only speak as a spectator, since I don't enjoy playing duels.  But as a spectator, knowing that the challenger could nominate an unusual map is part of why I have enjoyed watching the KOTH event.

It's only a 10 minute timelimit.  So what if the map is really weird?  It's still Quake II.  Just have fun with it.  That's what I would want to see as a spectator, anyway.

[RailWolf]

I expressed most of my thoughts on IRC last night about this

To sum it up, and this has been edited to make a bit more sense than what i originally typed and have made exclusions of lines not pertaining to this.

<+VaeVictis> im really just thinking of grade-A duel maps, i made sure all the maps from the EDL were on the list
<@[QU]RailWolf> hrmm
<@[QU]RailWolf> you know.... ok hear me out
<@[QU]RailWolf> honestly i dont think quake2 KoTH should be taken as seriously as QuakeLive
<@[QU]RailWolf> not in the sense of slacking with it
<@[QU]RailWolf> but in the sense of rules
<@[QU]RailWolf> Quake2 is not PRO stuff anymore
<@[QU]RailWolf> quake2 is special to me
<@[QU]RailWolf> and there's so many people [mappers] i've met over the years and there are many many maps i've played that i would love to play again
<@[QU]RailWolf> i would love to see the best of the best quake2 maps on the koth
<@[QU]RailWolf> and not just "duel" maps
<+VaeVictis> yeah, but its still king of the hill for duels o.O and dueling something really fucking weird and gigantic, like say you try to duel the city maps... wtf?
<+VaeVictis> my first thought, map pool, its not like things are set in stone
 <+VaeVictis> i just made another post
 <@[QU]RailWolf> well... city maps came nowhere near my thoughts bro
 <@[QU]RailWolf> ...
 <@[QU]RailWolf> thats just silly
 <@[QU]RailWolf> ok
 <@[QU]RailWolf> good maps
 <+VaeVictis> ill probably have a ban list and then just a list of suggest maps which will be made up of all the league maps, and then say you can play whatever map that is on the nadl server EXCEPT these
 <@[QU]RailWolf> a suggestive list would be good
 <+VaeVictis> and just have a generalised list like: instagib maps, much larger tdm maps (such as: example, example, example)
 <@[QU]RailWolf> 'suggestive' being that there is indeed a pooling of good maps to pick from
 <@[QU]RailWolf> but i dont see a reason to limit it
 <@[QU]RailWolf> anyway
 <@[QU]RailWolf> /endrant



Quake II is not QuakeLive
Quake II's maps are a wonderful thing and being able to openly choose any map out of the hundreds of thousands of maps made for quake2 and have it broadcasted over a stream was one of the factors that made KoTH special on q2 to begin with
Yes some maps are obviously not going to work with this, but this is also a community that knows this and will not call stupid shit as we are here trying to have fun.

So I guess I'm stating that it pretty much is just an unspoken thing that some obvious maps wont be accepted, but other than that NOTHING needs to happen

[[BTF]adam]

I was under the impression EVERY q2dm* map can be duelled on appropriately bar dm8, dm6 is a great duel map imo.

But who needs any map when you have the chastity belt baby. 

[VaeVictis]

I was under the impression EVERY q2dm* map can be duelled on appropriately bar dm8, dm6 is a great duel map imo.

But who needs any map when you have the chastity belt baby. 

but you see, there's an unfair advantage, everyone knows chastity belt, so it might never get called, where other maps will probably get called because they are gonna bet you don't know them so they take out the skillset of map knowledge, thus taking out all the great dueling maps as a feesable option if you want to take the crown... :/

You all say that the comunity will be responsable and call good maps, but i've seen some pretty stupid calls so far in just a few weeks... In my honest opinion i see why calling maps would be something the quake2 community likes being as its a very old community and there is thousands of maps... BUT I think it doesn't really help the quake 2 dueling scene because it means you can just pick a random map instead of truely out dueling your opponent... :/ maybe it's just me, but i think a little more structure is needed... I'm not saying it needs to be REALLY strict, but some structure would be nice so it doesn't just turn into a WTF event.

[VaeVictis]

Really you have to also think from jehar's point of view on running this whole thing... occasionally a map you dont see often is fun, but it really needs a lot of structure so he can keep it running smoothly

[peewee_RotA]

<+VaeVictis> yeah, but its still king of the hill for duels o.O and dueling something really fucking weird and gigantic, like say you try to duel the city maps... wtf?
<+VaeVictis> my first thought, map pool, its not like things are set in stone
 <+VaeVictis> i just made another post
 <@[QU]RailWolf> well... city maps came nowhere near my thoughts bro
 <@[QU]RailWolf> ...
 <@[QU]RailWolf> thats just silly

Sheridan anyone? Talk about competitive gameplay. I think city1 would make an excellent option for a proficient sheridan player.

I like Vae's suggestion of the happy medium. All maps are available, but admins can deny bad choices that are going to ruin other's experience. I'd love to see quite a few of Marics maps or LeRay's maps come up in the next KotH but I'd suggest against putting in any AQ2 maps or ridiculously huge downloads. Base64 is a terrible map choice but if you could take a map that a Vanilla player knows then you open the audience. If we did a map like Mintro or Mine3 then we open the door for crusty, camperone, or jman to take a whack at the prize. I say if we get any of them interested in a duel then the goal has been more than accomplished.