Possible wallhack

[|iR|Focalor]

I already sent this demo to someone else for a second opinion, and they agree that this person is probably walling. I'll just cut and paste what I sent them, as well as their comments to me in reply.

Watch this demo and tell me if you think this guy could be walling or perhaps using spiked models. Me and Devious were pretty convinced even before I started spectating. On the previous map, q2dm3, he'd crouch over by the door to the RL and wait for me to come through the other door leading to the RG. He'd nail me before I even had time to spot him and hit fire,... with him having a 160 ping to my 35. He did things like that several times during that particular map. I only started recording halfway into this map, and missed a few similar doorway-camp shots like that. There's a few in particular to watch for. As Devious is strafing towards the MG, he lets a rocket loose to meet Devious before Devious ever comes into view around the corner. Then a little bit later, Asmodeus is in that same portion of that hall, and Devious comes at him from the RG room. It looks to me like he's looking DEAD AT the wall where that hallway leads to the RG ladder as Devious is coming towards the yellow armor. A little later, Asmodeus is in the corner of the hallway leading to the RG window and Devious is by the yellow armor stairs. It's a bit too far to hear steps clearly, and yet he still seems to let a rocket loose at just the right time to meet Devious by the MG.

I would say he's walling, just from that one demo, and it's not even an in-eyes demo.


The occasions you mention look very odd, plus a couple others.

He's regularly looking thru the floor.

There are some movements he makes while on the little balcony by the ssg (under the rg window) that exactly track devious thru walls, even to the point of asmodeus changing direction one time while simultanously flicking his mouse at nothing, at the exact same time that dev changes his direction on the other side of the wall.

There was nobody behind him yet he flailed to get the xhair around almost 180 in front of devious who wasn't visible and who's last visible movements did not show him going that way.


His kill when he drops down the rg ladder and shoots a crouching devious in the little hallway, shows a bit of setup before dev is in sight while dev isn't making noise at all.
The guy knew he was there before dropping down and was pre-aimed on the floor at dev's feet before he did it.


apparently he knows enough to not use hitscan weps all the time so his xhair isn't dead on people as they round corners..

his ability to spam rox right at peoples knees, on blind corner shots, is either ridiculous or godly and his movements and item control (or lack thereof) do not scream "godly" to me.



I'd send this demo to quadz with some highlights mentioned.

[Jman-CRU]

Thanks so much... I just thought it was some sort of warped sense of humor... But obviously you mean it.
Nice. Asmodeus, that's me. And unfortunately, I didn't start recording a demo when I was trying to catch up with Dev. Great thing you are trying to belittle the job I did.
But alright: You are accusing me of cheating. Okay. Maybe I should start recording demos now, just in case one of those other paranoid idiots out there comes up with accusations like that. Oh, I forgot: You are not like those idiots - you are good players. Bad losers, but good players. Thank you so much for accusing me of cheating!
You can call me a camper. You can call me a noob. But quit calling me a cheater. That's something I never did, never do and never will do. And next time you feel like recording a demo to prove I am "walling", tell me, for I will record one, too, so you can see what's happening in 1rst person. Once again, thank you so much.

Take a look at some demos I recorded today (just in case some idiot thinks I'm actually cheating). And find out about how I play this game.
And what's happening from my point of view, when I'm looking at walls, "exactly tracking others"...

 

[Jman-CRU]

And some more... I hope you'll find lots of occasions where I am clearly wallhacking.

[Jman-CRU]

Want some more...? I can provide you with lots of these, if you insist. And maybe next time you can watch a GOOD game like the one versus Dev.
If I didn't hack the demo, that is.

[haunted]

i watched focalor's demo... nothing conclusive really.

BUT, things like this always stick out to me when I'm watching these demos:

He's experienced enough to know a few sounds on this map / know where his enemy is... yet he runs away from someone with blaster when he's stacked with weapons? uhhhhhhhh.... that's a freebie kill. Maybe he did it on purpose, idk. Or maybe he's so dependent off the wallhack that running away like that and seeing them through the walls is all that he can do. A lot of times newbies that are helplessly reliant on a cheat do things like this........

But as I said, there's nothing conclusive from this demo. Especially being that it's not in-eyes... and sorry if you're innocent jman, just giving my opinion.

[Whirlingdervish]

In the demo foc posted I noticed at least 2 occasions where someone who had decent sound knowledge should have known where the enemy was and in this one the guy seemed quite surprised when they finally 'saw' their opponent.

There's one where dev drops down from rg room while "asmodeus" was running towards the mg on the little catwalk that connects to the rg room hallway. With my headphones on, I could clearly hear him jump down (it's pretty much the same room so it's loud when he hits) and yet this guy with his 150 ping who was supposedly making prediction rockets from 2 rooms away based on footstep sounds, didn't hear it, and instead turned quickly in surprise when he realized he was gettin shot at and saw dev out of the corner of the screen.

The whole demo looks to be of someone who is very reliant on visual cues.


Hey jman, instead of posting demo after demo of times you aren't hacking why don't you try something that proves it, since you feel so wronged. It's not like it's hard to find cheats for this game, and you wouldn't be the first to be accused of using them, while aliasing.

http://www.antiche.at

[Jman-CRU]

In the demo foc posted I noticed at least 2 occasions where someone who had decent sound knowledge should have known where the enemy was and in this one the guy seemed quite surprised when they finally 'saw' their opponent.

There's one where dev drops down from rg room while "asmodeus" was running towards the mg on the little catwalk that connects to the rg room hallway. With my headphones on, I could clearly hear him jump down (it's pretty much the same room so it's loud when he hits) and yet this guy with his 150 ping who was supposedly making prediction rockets from 2 rooms away based on footstep sounds, didn't hear it, and instead turned quickly in surprise when he realized he was gettin shot at and saw dev out of the corner of the screen.

The whole demo looks to be of someone who is very reliant on visual cues.


Hey jman, instead of posting demo after demo of times you aren't hacking why don't you try something that proves it, since you feel so wronged. It's not like it's hard to find cheats for this game, and you wouldn't be the first to be accused of using them, while aliasing.

http://www.antiche.at

Sorry for posting those demos, but I have never before been in a situation like this. Neither have I recorded demos of my own games before - there was simply no reason for me to do it. I'm not that kind of ego-boy who jerks off watching himself play.
Did anyone of you take the time to bother watching them, btw.? Or is everyone just busy keeping things easy like saying "instead of posting demo after demo of times you AREN'T HACKING...", which suggests that other times I do hack? I'm not one of those guys who are bad losers. And I'm not that kind of guy who needs to win at all costs. In fact I only play for fun, nothing more, nothing less. If I HAD used any cheats, I'd say it. Just like I told quadz several years ago that I was spoofing some idiot's name ONE TIME.   

But fuck this, I see you don't care. So, what would be something that proves focalor wrong? Installing anticheat on a linux system to use it with APRQ2? If you tell me how to do that, I'll do so. 
Or would it be best to return to Windoze? For I could install r1q2 and anticheat, just like I had before. With major crashes every six month, higher ping and shit like usual. Great idea. Btw, even back then there were assholes accusing me of cheating, even though there were no files to be found in AC list. Very funny.
So, what am I supposed to do? 1vs1 focalor on a map I am strong on next time we meet, record it, most likely lose the game and show him the demo so he can see in 1rst person what happened in situations when he felt like I was walling, using spiked models or whatever comes to his mind? 

Yo haunted: I'm a vanilla player - and only a 4 year old in terms of playing quake2. It's rare that I find myself in situations with only ONE opponent. And it's very rare that this opponent is someone I know to be a fucking good player. I've encountered dev several times before when I was stacked up with weapons while dev only had a blaster, shotgun or the like. And I lost. Alright? I know dev HITS. I am not as good as him/her. And I know it.

[|iR|Focalor]

A 1st person demo after the fact isn't going to prove that you aren't walling or using spiked models. The client doesn't record all your personal files to the demo, such as models, textures, extra little loaded dll's, etc. But using Anticheat from now on will prove that you aren't. Any reason why you can't?

While I may make comments in-game stating that someone might be cheating, I rarely post demos of those people unless I've watched the demo again with a wallhack loaded to see what's really going on and THEN gotten a second opinion about the demo from someone else who is good at spotting such things. The map before this one,... when I noticed that you'd rail me the minute I peeked around a door... I was still winning that one, so I'm not a bad loser, just observant. Even Devious isn't capable of hitting someone that soon. Before I started recording, Devious tested you once in the BFG intersection area. Devious made like she was gonna head back out and stopped before rounding the corner of the wall leading outside. You still took the shot... because your ping is 160 and you wouldn't have had time to know that she was planning on stopping. Devious and I both pointed it out to you, and you said it was a "lucky guess". Kinda odd that you never made any spam shots/covering fire other than at the exact times when someone was rounding a corner, both in the demo and before the demo started.

You can make snide remarks about my accusations all you want, but the fact remains that you DO NOT use anticheat, and if you DID, I wouldn't have any reason to make such accusations in the first place. So once again, is there any reason why you can't use anticheat?

[Jman-CRU]

Yes, Mister, there IS a reason why I can't use anticheat. It's the same why I was not able to install r1q2 and anticheat right from the start when I changed my OS: As far as I know, there is no anticheat client for linux. IF there is one now, I'm not quite sure if it would work with APRQ2. And the r1q2 I favour (and tried to compile different versions like dozens of times) just won't compile correctly.
Look, I was used to r1q2 and had anticheat on my win system. And exactly that was what I was trying to install right after I found an appropriate linux system. But r1q2 was buggy as hell - I couldn't even start the game). So when I found APRQ2, which was working for me, I was happy to have at least a working client. I was looking for anticheat then, but didn't find anything for linux.
I have no idea if there is something similar to anticheat. And if so, I would rely on somebody to help me with it. I'm NO tekk-freak.

I have to say I really don't like the way this is taking. It's like "Who doesn't use anticheat possibly is a cheater". Do I have to apologize for hitting someone earlier than he hits me? Man, have you ever played with a ping of 200+? I have. And that time I WAS using r1q2 and anticheat. I got used to shooting short time BEFORE I walked around corners. I even hit people mid air on wtf (maybe panjoo remembers, for when he saw it, he said that's pretty hard with a ping that high). Ah, whatever... Past is past, and now I'm a cheater...

Btw.: Of course I will make remarks about your accusations. Simply because it's pissing me off to be accused of cheating. Alright, I got used to stupid remarks on the server, but those were idiots or just people making fun. I know you are none of them, and until now I had a pretty good opinion about your skills and attitude.
Obviously I was wrong about your attitude.
Man, that game vs dev was one of the best "1vs1"s I ever fought! I never survived that long facing an opponent like dev - and even got dev fragged that often. Man, when I battled razor once, I lost to him 1vs1! And all you two do is belittle me by saying I'm not legit...? Thank you! Nice finding one of my best games in the "lamers" section.
I really thought you were joking when you started this on the server.

And I'm pissed off because I don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about! Okay, I've heard enough people talking about "wallhacking" to get an idea of what they mean. But "spiked models"? Dude, I can't even get the "ignore" function of my client working! What the fuck are "spiked models"?
And extra dlls on a linux system? Hello? This is linux, alright? I'd have to write and compile any "dll" all by myself, to make it work, or not?

Really, I am pissed off. For obviously, there is nothing I can do to prove you wrong but installing windows again. One win partition just for focalol. So you can sleep well again and don't dream of evil demons who are cheating the crap out of you. And you know what? After I got used to the higher ping again, STILL hitting you first when coming around corners, I won't hear any excuse. For you don't have the balls to see you're wrong.

Alright guys. Any ideas how to get anticheat or something similar working for APRQ2? Please? I want to show this Gentleman there is NO fucking cheat. 

[Whirlingdervish]

alrighty then, since you've decided that I don't care, I'll keep this blunt:


Since you didn't seem to get it, I wasn't implying that you cheat in all the other games you've played and I was attempting to help you remove the stigma of such accusations.



from what I read, it seems that you're playing the linux card as the reason you don't use anticheat.

(even though you claim to not be a tech guy, which really doesn't mesh will with an OS where you have to compile all of your own software)


I have heard a lot of excuses like this, from people who didn't want to use AC for whatever reason

"would it be best to return to Windoze?... I could install r1q2 and anticheat, just like I had before. With major crashes every six month, higher ping and shit like usual. Great idea. Btw, even back then there were assholes accusing me of cheating, even though there were no files to be found in AC list"

Contrary to the assertions of such excuses, there is no evidence at all that r1q2, anticheat or windows are the things causing "major crashes" and "high ping" or any of the other horrible things that people blame on them.

The only real differences I've seen (thru years of experience using it now) is that it takes an extra 5 seconds when I first join a server, for AC to communicate to it's server and declare me valid, and people can call me a hacker all day, but the admins will be able to verify that I am not one.

For you the advantage would be the second part.

It doesn't matter if some random on the server claims that you're cheating. What matters is that you can prove that you aren't, EVERY TIME you play, to the admins of the servers who will be the ultimate authority when it comes to deciding to let you play.


I've used r1q2 with anticheat on 4 completely different windows boxes now, with greatly varying processors and mobos, different video hardware (from a geforce 4 mx440 to an fx5200, to a 7600gs to a Quadro NVS all the way up to a 9500gt, and even some old ati rage pro cards back in the day) and different ISPs (cable and dsl), and I have not noticed a single millisecond change in my ping to the servers (except for when they physically moved from one city to another a while back) and I have not had q2 ever crash my windows system, even using 3.20 or apr or egl.

APRQ2, EGL, Q2PRO and R1Q2 for windows, all support anticheat. There will never be an anticheat for linux becase it would be hacked the day the source was released which is how linux works. You really can't be so stupid that you don't get this, if you successfully use linux.

I have no idea what the "other shit" you're referring to is supposed to be, but it's probably a non-reason as well.

Just go get it and use it 100% of the time, and you won't have to deal with these horrid accusations anymore.

[|iR|Focalor]

If you really are legit, then there's no reason to get too terribly pissed off about this. LOL it off if it's bullshit, keep on playing, and don't worry.

Just out of curiosity, why did you decide to go with a Linux os over Windows? (I'm not insinuating that you made the change in order to cheat, just genuinely curious.)

If proving something to me or anyone else really means all that much too you, then yeah, go ahead and get Windows and start using AC from now on. If you think I'm just full of piss and wind and don't give a shit what I say or think, then don't do anything. I'm just words on a screen. I hold no sway or say around here. The admins are the only ones anyone really has to answer to, and they've remained silent thus far. So who gives a shit. Life goes on.

But just in case you were walling, hopefully this is a wake up call and you won't do it anymore knowing that people may be watching.

This obviously isn't a personal vendetta over anything you might have said on the servers. This is all based on what I've seen with my eyes. I've never had any problems with you that I can recall. I'm sure you've seen me be both friendly to some people and act like a total shithead to others. I think you've seen enough of me around to know that I'm always nice and/or indifferent to everyone until they do something to change that. Even now, I'm still nice to you. I could act like a total prick about this and shit all over you, but I have no reason to. Hopefully you understand what I'm trying to say here.

[console]

He's regularly looking thru the floor.

There are some movements he makes while on the little balcony by the ssg (under the rg window) that exactly track devious thru walls, even to the point of asmodeus changing direction one time while simultanously flicking his mouse at nothing, at the exact same time that dev changes his direction on the other side of the wall.

Hmm.  I watched it both with and w/out a wallhack.

Most of the times when asmodeus would appear to be looking through the floor or through walls, the opponent isn't even visible with a wallhack.

And it seemed to me, for the most part asmodeus tends to react only after the opponent becomes visible on screen.

Granted, asmodeus gave the appearance of only paying attention to sound cues part of the time.  For awhile I wondered if his speakers were turned off.

Still, nothing about the demo really screamed wallhack to me.

And I'm pissed off

I'd suggest not taking it too personally.  If there's anyone to be pissed at, it's the dickwads who do cheat, who are responsible for the heightened sense of suspicion that permeates the community.  And sadly, often such suspicions turn out to have been warranted.

Alright guys. Any ideas how to get anticheat or something similar working for APRQ2? Please? I want to show this Gentleman there is NO fucking cheat. 

There's no anticheat.dll planned for Linux.  r1ch has pointed out, that due to the open source nature of the Linux kernel, that anticheat could be defeated by a custom kernel.  (It's harder to patch the closed-source kernel on windows.)


Regards,

quadz

[Jman-CRU]

@dervish: Hey, sorry man. I felt like being on trial with people I don't know analysing and rating my gameplay, and telling me what's the only way to prove I'm not cheating. Don't know how you'd feel if you were accused of something you didn't do (by strangers and in a language, that's just your second language)...
From my point of view, the whole thing is bullshit, and if foc didn't cry "wallhack!" on this forum, I would have just continued laughing. For all I did was to frag dev several times in a row. To me it was all fun until foc started crying "cheat" on this forum. I did not cheat, but because of this accusation, people started telling me to prove it. And even more: It looked (and still looks) to me like the guy who came up with this is saying: "Well, I did nothing - it's his own fault he's not using anticheat, for else I wouldn't have started throwing dirt at him... We all know there are cheaters out there... And I know when I see one." What's this? The Spanish Inquisition?
 
Yeah, right: You're just words on a screen, foc. You're not causing me any trouble by doing this shit. You're just throwing dirt and the cleanup is up to me. How kind and benevolent of you not to act like the prick you could be. Thank you, Godfather and Protector of Quake2. I'm glad this isn't the middle age, for I guess you would have burned me just to be on the safe side. A question that comes to mind is "Do I have to play less "suspicious" now?" What would be less "suspicious" for you, my Master?
Don't get me wrong, I'm still alright to laugh... Just like the ones who know me and the way I'm playing this game. And yes, please, feel free to observe me any time, Mister Officer, Sir. 

I do understand that those assholes who DO cheat are the reason for situations like this one. In fact I'm glad that there are people who are capable of recognizing cheaters (for I simply have no idea how to...) and watch over tastyspleen. I hate hackers, too, for they are spoiling the fun of the game just like spoofers, whiners and snarfdumple...
But man, being accused of cheating instead of a "gg" is no fun either. Just don't go that far to put everyone under general suspicion...
Cause this time you've accused a newb who would just have kicked dev's ass, if she didn't wall...   

Before I forget about it: I was NOT referring to r1q2 or anticheat being the cause of crashes. In fact I still think r1q2 was the better client, and I would have appreciated if it had been possible to go on using anticheat as well. And I perfectly DO understand that anticheat has to stay closed source and therefor won't be available for linux OS - after I read that thread on antiche.at, for I didn't think much about it before. But do you remember that focalor was the one repeatedly asking me why I am not using anticheat...? Even after I posted that I'm on a linux system?
But back on topic: Your question was "Why linux?" Because I was simply fed up with WINDOWS and couldn't afford a Mac back then, so I tried several linux distributions. I wanted an OS which is stable, safe (right from the start!), easy to configure and to use, no chatty bitch on the web and no performance hog. Sabayon was the best I found. It comes with a great hardware detection, closed source drivers, hardware acceleration even in LiveCD mode and a great variety of progs with good frontends, so there was not much I had to do to get it installed and configured. Even as a non-tech guy. I was just reading some howtos to get quake working - that was all. I still don't have much knowledge on how Sabayon/linux in general works. And it's not necessary, for it's exactly what Windows was NOT: A very convenient, stable and secure OS. Alright?   

[|iR|Focalor]

Yeah, right: You're just words on a screen, foc. You're not causing me any trouble by doing this shit. You're just throwing dirt and the cleanup is up to me. How kind and benevolent of you not to act like the prick you could be. Thank you, Godfather and Protector of Quake2. I'm glad this isn't the middle age, for I guess you would have burned me just to be on the safe side. A question that comes to mind is "Do I have to play less "suspicious" now?" What would be less "suspicious" for you, my Master?
Don't get me wrong, I'm still alright to laugh... Just like the ones who know me and the way I'm playing this game. And yes, please, feel free to observe me any time, Mister Officer, Sir. 

What is there to clean up? You've obviously always been legit. I should be the one worried about what people think, being that I'm the boy who cried wolf, right?

Anyway, console has spoken. Good enough for me. Shit happens. Life goes on. Thread locked.