Suspected Cheat

[PANTONE 7717C]

I have played and chased this guy quite a few times, both on TS mutant and (the late?) Kansas and 4u2 servers and I always think something is fishy.

Unless he just has an uncanny ability to learn a map extremely quickly (I do believe he has made some maps before), it just seems odd his awareness of where others are.

Learning and knowing a map quickly is always a plus but it does not have anything to do with having made maps before. That's one thing I know for a fact as I've been making maps for a long time.

And the fact that he's been around for awhile without conclusive evidense of a cheat could also mean he's adapted his playstyle, i.e.: always take into account someone might be chasing you; go around the corner to "check" if an item is there even when you already know it's not, etc.

[M^tster]

I have on occasion seen suspicious shots from just about anyone that plays with a few excwetions.So saying it publicly may not be such a good idea unless you have a demo to back it up.Ive been around awhile and pride myself on seeing cheats very clearly.But there are those people who you will never be sure about.So in essance, its all about honesty.Which Im affraid this world is lacking more than ever.A2G is either a really good player.Or really good at hiding his cheat.And stating it publicly just makes them crawl back into the hole they are easing out of. So shhhh! 

[PANTONE 7717C]

Just sent you one of the demos Console. M^tster, the thread was here already so I figured why not, but yeah you're right, unless there is no doubt stating it publicly itsn't always smart.

[[BTF]Gator]

feel free to also post up the demo here

[Ghost9]

I can't tell.

[adrenal1ne]

i dont find the guy that good..

[haunted]

haunted's Comments:

1. A2G is not good.
2. He is playing complete newbs in the demo.
3. I own him.

alright, those were givens.. but now towards the ungiven, but incredibly obvious:
(in referring to the demo posted of Ax2Grind, from the bot drop section, in the the "Another Suspicious Wallhacker" thread that was originally meant for me.. ROFL. yeah, well the evidence im providing comes from A2G.dm2 posted by panjoo)

4. He walls. I shouldn't have to explain this to anyone. If you do not recognize this then you must be suffering from a very serious illness or disorder.

5. A2G is indefinitely using aim assistance, it is seen NOT IN HIS SSG, like all of you guys seem to obsess over, but in frags 13 and 31. there is no way around it. In #13, A2G fires a rocket directly at his opponent, with his crosshair nowhere near this opponent. After the rocket hits, his crosshair immediately makes a perfect and straight path towards the exact center point on his opponent's model (by scale) and makes a dead stop. The path, the position, and the hault are tell tale signs of a aimbotting, and the chances of a nonbot doing as he did in this situation are so minute, that you would be more likely to be struck by lightning, be engulfed in a tidal wave, and win the lottery at the same time. (one out of 4,534,243,000,000,438).

Ok, now that ive clarified the chances of him being a bot, lets check out frag #31 

6. The same exact situation is depcited in this frag as well, except w/ railgun. A2G fires directly at his opponent and hits him, and then moments later takes the same bot/machine oriented path directly towards the center of his opponents model and makes a dead stop.  The chance of him not botting while completing this machine process exactly TWICE, would be something like winning the lottery in 5 different states, while being struck by lightning and attacked by a white shark in lake superior.

7. The odds of him not walling/aimbotting are indefinitely infinity - 1. One would be more likely to win the lottery in all 50 states, even in states where it's not legal, than A2G not to be cheating.

8. timescale .01 + models gg

e|haunted

[[BTF]Gator]

im not convinced on 13 i guess, but on 31, his rail does fire almost 30 degrees to the right of where his crosshair is.

[[BTF]Defiant!]

I have made a movie to help people interpret the Az2Grind BOT decision.. (demo is posted here: http://tastyspleen.net/quake/forums/index.php?topic=1690.msg26435#msg26435)

• original demo is in link above
• frag 30 (not cheated) in movie format: http://media.putfile.com/a2g_demo_frag_30_normal
• frag 31 (aimbot) in movie format http://media.putfile.com/frag-31-aimbot

This definitely looks like an aimbot.  No wallhack evidence AT ALL, the actions/reactions are quite ordinary.

Reservations

• Unless there is something I don't know about how client/server/netcode works in demo playback..
• How strange that someone would cheat and still be pretty much at my level.  I mean, clearly many of his shots aren't cheated.  How lame.
• Most important: How do we know it is him?

Def

[plastik]

well, the logs could be checked from the night panjoo took that demo, and the demo will only show the actions of a person in the exact order it recieves it.  he is obviously very good at hiding it.  we're talking 1/100th's of a second worth of viewing, the natural human eye only see's less that 1/3 of that.  All of his shots may be assisted, but sometimes, and with certain weapons, someone pops up to the left or right of him, and he gives himself away.  I don't see any evidence of wallhacking, but who know how long he has been doing that if he even does.  what do you do if you get caught? you either stop or try harder not to get caught, human nature.

[Art]

[li]Most important: How do we know it is him?[/li]
[/list]
Def

Right, it would be nice if exact times, dates, and places were supplied along with these demos. Oh yeah, did anyone else notice the weird sound effect on the demo that panjoo posted ? (a2g.dm2) His weapon fire sounded like it was coming from somewhere else in the map.   Hmmm, wonder if any other oddities were introduced.

Def, now let's see that fancy camerawork in action on the combi-purri demo. I want to see that chain snap to center mass on purris chest

[console]

Reservations

• Unless there is something I don't know about how client/server/netcode works in demo playback..
• How strange that someone would cheat and still be pretty much at my level.  I mean, clearly many of his shots aren't cheated.  How lame.
• Most important: How do we know it is him?

Good gravy, that frag 31 doesn't look good.  I don't know if there's any manner of interpolation (e.g. cl_predict 1) on behalf of the client recording the demo that could account for that sort of 'slew' in the movement.  I know sometimes watching demos recorded with a _lot_ of lag, sometimes you can see sort of laggy slewing/snapping around as the laggy client tries to record the demoed player turning. 

I can't in my mind yet rule out the possibility that maybe cl_predict is doing some guesswork that happens to produce this bot-like post-shot slew... (Need to learn more about it... maybe r1ch would know.. )

As for the authenticity, it checks out in the log file for mutant.  The IP associated with the client making this statement:

[2006-01-02 Mon 18:48:46] Ax2Grind: are you asking me to leave because im so good?

...is A2G's IP address.

Apart from the possibility that the demo isn't really showing the movement accurately-- . . . . it doesn't look too good. 


Regards,

[[BTF]Defiant!]

The demo was a recam as posted by Panjoo here http://tastyspleen.net/quake/forums/index.php?topic=1690.msg26435#msg26435.  This is why the sounds are "wrong" and could maybe have set the player POV changes.  I doubt it given that shots like the shot before frag 31 behave differently.


Def

[[BTF]Gator]

i find it interesting that he is starting to appear to have aim help.  i have been watching him for wh use and never doubted his aim!

However, review the actual demo, a2g, and inspect his play from frags 19 to 20.  Take a look at his drop down shot on the guy going out the doorway from the chain.

i also have other instances in other demos that make me concerned of wh use.

i suppose it is time to post that.

[[BTF]Gator]

Here is another demo for review.