Author Topic: 256 Player Group Mapping Project (Read 27003 times)

Yendor · « **Reply #15 on:** March 24, 2009, 02:31:21 PM »

Ahh, it saved the first, say 2KB of each source file, and replaced the rest with dots.......................................

I have plenty of backup copies, just need to find one that's reasonably current.

True about the JVM's too. I just have this opinion of interpreted languages they they are like training wheels... when you become a grown-up, you compile! This comes from learning BASIC on an Apple ][+, whose BASIC interpreter was (and still is) a great piece of work, given in ran on about 2K of ROM, at 800 KHz. Ahh the old days...when Wolfenstein was 2D !

peewee_RotA · « **Reply #16 on:** March 24, 2009, 03:45:20 PM »

I appreciate that Java is effectively platform independent. I've never had a good experience with the language, however.

It's a love hate relationship. Java loves to hate me...

The most trouble that I had with 2008 is that any solution or project file made in 2008 is absolutely, positively, sure as Bill Gates has no soul, not backward compatible. One of my hobby's is to submit the definition of backward compatibility via a feedback from on microsoft.com any time that I run into problems like that.

Yendor · « **Reply #17 on:** March 24, 2009, 06:55:05 PM »

Hey all ~

Ben2 now has the means to disable the Lights and the Elevators. I'm working on the usable size of the Map, allowing negative XYZ coords and such.

My question: Do any of you know off-hand, the limits of the X,Y, and Z coords in the game? I want Ben to be able to max this out...something I've always wanted to do anyhow, and it looks like a rather important item for this project..

~Yendor

Jay Dolan · « **Reply #18 on:** March 24, 2009, 09:38:47 PM »

Quote from: Yendor on March 24, 2009, 02:31:21 PM

True about the JVM's too. I just have this opinion of interpreted languages they they are like training wheels... when you become a grown-up, you compile! This comes from learning BASIC on an Apple ][+, whose BASIC interpreter was (and still is) a great piece of work, given in ran on about 2K of ROM, at 800 KHz. Ahh the old days...when Wolfenstein was 2D !

Idiotic quote of the day. If you're still doing all of your development in c/C++, you're way behind the curve. Interpreted languages (especially dynamic ones) have so many advantages over "the old way" -- not the least of which is speed and cost of development.

Jay Dolan · « **Reply #19 on:** March 24, 2009, 09:47:50 PM »

Oh, and this map idea is a terrible waste of time, sorry :-/ It'd be much more practical and enjoyable to just aim for some good sized (16-64) Quake2 games at QuakeCon. Last year we struggled to get 8 players together. And if you ever could get 256 clients to connect, everyone would overflow while trying to spawn in. Other protocol shortcomings and game module breakages would quickly crop up, too (corpses bug for starters). And any map that could realistically contain 256 players will run up against hard engine limits like MAX_TEXINFO, MAX_SURF_EDGES, etc. At the very least, the BSP compiler will likely puke or take literally 20 days to -vis the level. Good luck moving that process along from designer to designer.

Anyway, I just wanted to call this out now -- maybe save some people some grief.

UUD-40 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 24, 2009, 10:11:45 PM »

1v1 hide n' seek on a 256 player map sounds fun.

Yendor · « **Reply #21 on:** March 24, 2009, 11:22:08 PM »

Ahh, I was waiting for the "that's the stupidest thing I've heard all day" response. Golly, it took a 5 hours for it to happen. Must be a slow day. Anyhow, not to get into any kind of this way is better than that way argument, I just needed to vent after a day of stupid computer problems that always seem to come back to something that was abstracted that really didn't need to be. Yes there's more utility in the computer world today, and yes I do realize that there are vast benefits to interpreted languages and abstraction from hardware, it seems the art of tight programming has been lost, much as the art of video games has been drowned out by pretty graphics. Anyone still playing Quake 2 can attest to that

Hell I'll still play a mean game of Tempest when I get the chance (which these days, mainly comes as a result of abstracted interpreted computing).

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As far as the 256-person map goes - yes there are likely going to be problems, both with the map itself and with playing it, but hey - it's a small effort for my part to contribute. It may lead to something very cool - indeed, the entire open-source nature of Q2 is definitely leading to something cool - it certainly has kept an ancient game alive far beyond all expectations. And if a very old program that I wrote in C++ 9 years ago can still get a little play, then I'm all for it !

(And I can destroy anyone here at Tempest, I assure you.)

quadz · « **Reply #22 on:** March 24, 2009, 11:53:49 PM »

SUPERZAPPER RECHARGE

Yendor · « **Reply #23 on:** March 25, 2009, 12:02:40 AM »

AVOID SPIKES

Damn I love that game... (Score > 180000 && Score= xxxx11) = Free 40 Credits! Woo hoo!

Jay Dolan · « **Reply #24 on:** March 25, 2009, 04:26:01 AM »

Oh, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with your .map generator. I'm just saying, building and organizing a game for a 256 player level is a fools errand :>

[BTF] Reflex · « **Reply #25 on:** March 25, 2009, 04:44:58 AM »

I figured things would need to be kept simple, but it's impossible?

peewee_RotA · « **Reply #26 on:** March 25, 2009, 07:04:46 AM »

Quote from: Jay Dolan on March 24, 2009, 09:47:50 PM

everyone would overflow while trying to spawn in. Other protocol shortcomings and game module breakages would quickly crop up, too (corpses bug for starters). And any map that could realistically contain 256 players will run up against hard engine limits like MAX_TEXINFO, MAX_SURF_EDGES, etc.

I don't think that it's too far fetched to tackle these limitations during the development of the project. Something like a new client called quake256.exe. You still play Quake 4? Shah I'm up to Quake 256!

If we hit the size of a 64 player map and can't go any further due to any kind of limitations, then we'll have no choice but to make it the size of a 64 player map. The point IS to break the game... or get damn near close to it!

Yendor · « **Reply #27 on:** March 25, 2009, 08:42:28 AM »

Quote from: Jay Dolan on March 25, 2009, 04:26:01 AM

Oh, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with your .map generator. I'm just saying, building and organizing a game for a 256 player level is a fools errand :>

Ah, there's plenty wrong with the Map generator. I'm no master programmer, but I can git 'er done. The thing is rife with buggage, which I'm muddling through right now in fact. No offense taken (it takes lots more than that to offend moi).

This project is definitely worth pursuing... screw the angels, I'm rushin' in!

If this turns into some form of first-person W'o'Warcraft, that'd be pretty cool.

Jay Dolan · « **Reply #28 on:** March 25, 2009, 12:12:42 PM »

Quote from: peewee_RotA on March 25, 2009, 07:04:46 AM

I don't think that it's too far fetched to tackle these limitations during the development of the project. Something like a new client called quake256.exe. You still play Quake 4? Shah I'm up to Quake 256!

If we hit the size of a 64 player map and can't go any further due to any kind of limitations, then we'll have no choice but to make it the size of a 64 player map. The point IS to break the game... or get damn near close to it!

So in addition to building a 256 player level, you're going to develop a client/server capable of delivering it? But to that point, when you begin to require a specialized engine, you *have* broken the game -- mission accomplished, right?

Idk, like I said before.. I think everyone (mappers and players) would benefit from setting a more realistic goal, and building a reasonably sized / reasonably high quality level. Just my $0.02. Whatever you produce, I'll look forward to playing or at least observing, as I plan on attending QCon this year.

Yendor · « **Reply #29 on:** March 25, 2009, 01:05:21 PM »

This is all worth it for one reason alone: To find out just how many people I can kill with one Rail shot, before the game crashes

Would love to check out QCon. I didn't have my system with me when I went last year, but enjoyed the scene nonetheless.

Author Topic: 256 Player Group Mapping Project (Read 27003 times)

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