Krez stfu i admit u owned me with 3 times my ping i dont deny the truth.
how dare you your lucky to fucking even know i didnt brainwash you fuck im your only fucking hope
1) make starting pay 10 dollars an hour, most of the people working in these factories barely graduated high school2) get rid of the health benefits3) get rid of the pension plans, makes no sense to pay people who aren't working or creating anything for the company4) start building more efficient, reliable cars that get better gas mileage, there's a reason why Toyota is killing the American car companiesThe unions are to blame for all the woes. Greedy people who think just by living in this country they are entitled to something. GM had 170 billion in revenues this past year, yet still posted a negative net income. They arent having trouble selling cars, it is the unions who are driving up their costs. Paying someone $60k a year, giving them retirement and healthcare benefits while they barely finished highschool with a GED is ludicrous, and the unions are to blame.
Their products were junk,
Quote from: krez on November 12, 2008, 02:52:51 PM1) make starting pay 10 dollars an hour, most of the people working in these factories barely graduated high school2) get rid of the health benefits3) get rid of the pension plans, makes no sense to pay people who aren't working or creating anything for the company4) start building more efficient, reliable cars that get better gas mileage, there's a reason why Toyota is killing the American car companiesThe unions are to blame for all the woes. Greedy people who think just by living in this country they are entitled to something. GM had 170 billion in revenues this past year, yet still posted a negative net income. They arent having trouble selling cars, it is the unions who are driving up their costs. Paying someone $60k a year, giving them retirement and healthcare benefits while they barely finished highschool with a GED is ludicrous, and the unions are to blame.All of this is old news. These were the exact same conditions in the early 80s when the Japanese cars were taking market share and Chrysler almost went under. Nothing's changed in the 25 years since then, although I don't think newer employees are getting the pension/health benefits.The Big 3 had greed on both sides - not just unions. The CEOs and senior management earned obscene salaries, pissed away money on expense accounts and eventually got fat pensions. Their products were junk, designed with planned obsolescence to keep new car buyers every 5 years and repair depts busy. The Japanese built better engineered, functional and reliable cars for a reasonable price. They got more expensive due to tariffs and duties levied on them by the US govt to give American cars an unfair advantage. Despite that, they slowly built a loyal customer base who will NOT go back to American cars. Oddly enough GM (Opel) and Ford built some very nice stylish European cars for the German and British market but no real attempt to copy those here.This has been a long time coming. With their cash flow problems I think they've hit a critical mass of debt that they can't get out of. No bail-out from the govt either. They have trillions of dollars of debt from the war and wall street bail-out. I doubt GM will be able to honor those pensions.
nothing to do with CEO salaries. Huge worker expenses & not innovating as they should is the issue. To late now, but there's a reason my grandpa wasn't thrilled about the UAW whie at ford (he wasn't union): he worked long weeks while many union employees got paid holidays for their birthdays. now the unions don't want to let go. New workers aren't getting anything near what the older ones got when they started (heck, for the starting pay of the new workers I'd happily work there!) but nobody NEEDS new workers.It's been feared for a few years & now it's on the table: union workers didn't want to give in anywhere near what would keep the company alive & now everybody will be out of a job. And before you knock a high-payed CEO, remember, their taxes are most likely more then 1/4 of the employee's taxes combined. That's a huge chunk of change that pays for schools & what not. Unions in New York were arguing that people on walstreet made an unfair amount of $$. Now, when those people make fractions, there's no $$ left to pay for anything! Walstreet taxes payed ~25% of NYS's WHOLE budget. So guess who's paying now? The people who complained!
fuck those thousands of american's who will be out of a job when Chrysler or Gm folds!While we're at it let's dissolve their pensions so they can be a huge drain on our social welfare services when they can't afford to make it on their own.
How did GM employees who worked steadily for years to earn their pensions, fuck up all on their own?
Your far-rightist "I pretend to be fiscally conservative by not giving a shit about other people" routine is wearing thin jag.
While you think of a reason that hard working americans should get the shaft and not be helped at all by the government they pay taxes to support, the rest of us will think about the trillions we spent to support the occupation of a foreign country under an administration that you praise to the skies, and then compare the results of that spending to what we could get if we spent about 700 billion on our OWN people.
No, he's right, Jag. And you've contradicted yourself in your first point, and completely avoided the rest of his argument (perhaps because you know he's right?).
Quote from: Whirlingdervish(Q2C) on November 13, 2008, 09:44:13 AMHow did GM employees who worked steadily for years to earn their pensions, fuck up all on their own?When did I mention it was their fault? Oh right... never.
Yeah! Lets dish out another 700 billion for people who fuck up on their own!