Cheating issue: A Solution?

[playboy]

he can not beat anyone now that AC is enabled, so we can conclude that 'Threatening to force anticheat' is a great solution. Not off topic.

[hal9000]

he can not beat anyone now that AC is enabled, so we can conclude that 'Threatening to force anticheat' is a great solution. Not off topic.

Very sad for a guy that like's to pretend he's so mature  :<  Guess your true colors came out because you were upset.

[console]

There are enough resources around here to be able to randomly demo players.

Thanks for volunteering.

I have yet to see an admin catch someone cheating.

Uh.  I suppose we don't make a big deal about it?

The majority of the 46 active bans, and 47 forced anticheat subnets are the result of admin vigilance.

On the other hand, it's a fact there aren't enough admins to keep tabs on every server.

Which is why players are encouraged to help out.  If a player thinks someone is cheating, I don't feel it should be too much to ask to record a spectator demo.

(I'll respond to Sigma and others' ideas in a separate post.)

Regards,

[console]

The TDM demo recording could possibly be enhanced using a "flag" command" similar to what you see in emails. Players in a match can type "flag player" is they feel there is a possibility of cheating and this can be attributed to the demo they are recoprded in. This ID's the demo as suspect and the admins can filter out demos that have things in common with each other (number of flags in the round, player total flags in the round, frequency of player being flagged)

I like the idea in general. 

I still think the first step would be adding the ability for the server to auto-record a serverdemo with everyone's point of view.  (Like warsow does.)

Technically, this would be something I or others should be able to incorporate into OpenTDM fairly easily.  Alternately, it could be scripted, which would probably be better, as then it could work with any mod.

Unfortunately, I doubt our system has the ability to handle recording serverdemos from several dozen q2 servers simultaneously.  So it's likely a feature that would have to be limited to a subset of servers (like the tourney servers.)

Alternately, I suppose a 'tag' or 'report' command could trigger a serverdemo record...  But of course you'd miss the actual moment that inspired the 'tag' in the first place, so... it would be preferable to always be recording serverdemos if possible...

Anyway...

Some possibilities to ponder...

Regards,

[playboy]

I think wallfly cheats, can we force anticheat on him? 

[console]

If people come across someone they think may be cheating, demo them when they play and then send it to an admin.  I personally am against people posting in the general forums, when it is not blatantly obvious.

Just my opinion.

That sounds like a great policy all together on how to handle demos of suspect cheaters. Ban the posting of these demos on the public forums and keep it to the admins to deal with. No more village militias going off half-cocked and no more trolls claiming someone cheats and not really knowing for sure.

Let the people that have accuired the position of admin through demonstration of respect and knowledge for the game decide...not the public few who go coo-coo for hax0r-puffs.

For the most part I agree, but there are pro's and con's....

That is probably a good rule of thumb, though... unless a demo shows very obvious cheating, it may be better to email it to console@tastyspleen.net than to post it publicly.

I wish there were some way for people to post a demo on the forums, in a thread which would end up with permissions such the only the person who started the thread, and the admins, could see it.  Because usually there is some back and forth needed, and if the demo is only emailed to me privately, then there's a bottleneck in the communication which puts more load on me as the go-between.

Historically, I did used to favor people sending me demos privately, but one downside was that I would get people sending me demos where they were SURE someone was cheating, and then hammering me on IRC about why I hadn't done anything yet about this 'OBVIOUS' cheating.  When quite often I might disagree about the level of obviousness.  Then I would get a deluge of insults about how I knew nothing about cheating in quake2 because I didn't play TDM (nevermind that we have some admins that do) etc. etc.  So I found over the years that suggesting they post their demo publicly and get it peer-reviewed cut out a whole range of bullshit like that.

Meh...

Anyway.... always something.  

Regards,

[hal9000]

Hal, you posted while I was making my response to lidz:
The difference is that it is handled behind closed doors before the dirty laundry gets hung out. So the initial decision is left to those with the authority and the responsibility, not the ones who think they know what they are talking about. (from your side wouldn't that be a benifit?)

Sigma, anything would be a benefit that doesn't feed trolls, for sure. That's more disruptive than anything else. So from that point of view I agree fully.

I don't think that's going to stop people from recording and posting demos here though.

[[BTF]Sigma]

I don't think that's going to stop people from recording and posting demos here though.

Hmmm...what if someone posts the demo, then locks the thread? It would prevent the follow up by everyone on the banwagon from getting involved and would simply allow the admins to check in on the demo and converse between themselves.

[hal9000]

I don't think that's going to stop people from recording and posting demos here though.

Hmmm...what if someone posts the demo, then locks the thread? It would prevent the follow up by everyone on the banwagon from getting involved and would simply allow the admins to check in on the demo and converse between themselves.

Seems more like having a strict no public posting of demo's allowed and admin approval of all files is the way to go. That also creates more work load and  I personally think it won't stop the trolls from going into a frenzy by just having the word of one of their own or a demo posted off site. The only real solution is the start cracking down on that specific group of people and start giving them warnings and temp bans for being asshats. If you leave them to their ways, they'll find ways to annoy members or make asses out of themselves.

They just need some discipline is all.

I do agree there should be a non-biased council that reviews demo's, people that have experience and are mature.

[Whirlingdervish]

does anyone actually read the tripe this idiot posts?

He thinks we should be punished for calling him out for hacking!

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!1

[[BTF]Sigma]

I've seen different forums use logins to display a different set of sub-forums to post in.

I'll try to explain the concept in a suedo code style

[forum home]
  [quake forum]
    [bot-drop]
      IF "user.access-level"
         -basic user THEN{empty forum with option to make a new thread with or without demo}
         -Admin user THEN{populated forum with threads posted by basic users, option to reply and discuss demo}
         -Quadz/Console THEN {all threads and executive dicision/power to take the admin discussion and ban, warn, or clear individual}
         -Guest THEN {"please login or create account to view/post content}
      ELSE {no access}

I don't know if it makes sense....just trying to get some progress here.

[hal9000]

I've seen different forums use logins to display a different set of sub-forums to post in.

I'll try to explain the concept in a suedo code style

[forum home]
  [quake forum]
    [bot-drop]
      IF "user.access-level"
         -basic user THEN{empty forum with option to make a new thread with or without demo}
         -Admin user THEN{populated forum with threads posted by basic users, option to reply and discuss demo}
         -Quadz/Console THEN {all threads and executive dicision/power to take the admin discussion and ban, warn, or clear individual}
         -Guest THEN {"please login or create account to view/post content}
      ELSE {no access}

I don't know if it makes sense....just trying to get some progress here.

I have used a lot of different forum software. I know that SMF can be fairly limited unless you know how to script the plugins for it. This would be cake if we could convince Quadz to move to Vbulletin :> Would be no problem to port all those settings and posts over. It's about a 100 dollar investment though. Unless he wants to be a pirate, arrrrr!

[[BTF]Sigma]

[HabibGoatAss]

I think that this is all needless talk.  If we level the playing field by FORCING ALL people to cheat, then things are fair again.

My suggestion is that we all install ProCheat 2.31 (or Higher) and force others to do so as well.   Procheat has proven that when all players cheat EQUALLY, then the game is re-equalized.

[[BTF]Dizzy]

I hope there's a ProCheat client for Mac, I don't want to be left out.