Author Topic: another terrorist attack  (Read 342186 times)

Offline Zeppelin

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Re: another terrorist attack
« Reply #1710 on: June 12, 2016, 01:50:41 PM »
50 dead, 53 wounded in Florida fruit bar terrorist shooting rampage. Am I the only one a little disappointed in the common traditional All-American psychopath for allowing these diaper-headed sand monkeys to show us up at the recreational sport of public mass shooting rampages which WEEEEEEEEEE fucking invented!?! How depressing. But on the bright side, maybe this will get a few of these ultra-PC gay rights folks to see that the "Islamophobia" they've been rabidly accusing some of the conservative folks of isn't entirely such a bad stance to have on the matter. It's a holy war. If they wanna keep the right pick whatever gender's HOLE they wanna put it in, they better get used to the idea of having to do violent things to other people with differing political or religious views. Violence never solved anything... said only the idiots who neglected to pay close enough attention to every chapter of every history book ever fucking written. DUH!

"Authorities in Santa Monica found possible explosives as well as a cache of weapons and ammunition Sunday in the car of a man who told them he planned to look for a friend at the L.A. Pride festival in West Hollywood, a law enforcement source said."

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-gay-pride-la-weapons-20160612-snap-story.html

gays are in the aim of DAESH
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Offline Sgt. Dick

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Re: another terrorist attack
« Reply #1711 on: June 12, 2016, 05:50:36 PM »
Some will take this sad event as another chance to push for strict gun control  :raincloud:
Guns did not kill these people, the radical Islamist did.
Chicago has some of the strictest gun control measures in the country, yet they have one of the worst levels of gun violence.
Criminals & Radicals will always get guns.  If some of the people in that club had guns, the number killed would probably be much lower.
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Offline yahoo

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Re: another terrorist attack
« Reply #1712 on: June 12, 2016, 07:48:45 PM »
guns don't shoot people.
even if you have the most strictest gun control in the whole universe, people with intentions will always find a way to get hold of a weapon.
if Islamists wont be able to get hold of a gun, they will find other ways to annihilate what they call as infidels.
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Offline Barton

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Re: another terrorist attack
« Reply #1713 on: June 12, 2016, 10:17:36 PM »
We do need more strict gun control. The problem with a lot of these recent mass shootings is that a lot of the perpetrators have clean criminal records but have mental health issues. With stricter laws we might be able to prevent people like Elliot Rodger or James Holmes from even having a chance to obtain firearms.

Sure, improving our nation's mental health seems like a good idea however how do you get more funding for this? To politicians, increasing funding to improve mental health isn't "sexy" to them, especially if such funding doesn't lead to tangible results. Also, how can we even treat such people if we don't have a pattern to recognize which people are susceptible to committing this sort of violence? Quite often it turns out that the people who know these spree killers never saw any sign in advance that such attacks would of happened. Omar Mateen was known to the FBI and ended up committing a killing spree, just like the San Bernardino shooter who the FBI also found having no ties to terrorism before the killings occurred. Now some terrorist group is claiming the credit for Mateen's attack, and if it turns out to be true that Mateen was part of their group, then it means that the FBI failed to see this attack coming once again. So I ask: how many more times are we going to allow these persons of interest to have access to firearms only to end up using them in senseless terrorist attacks? Wouldn't we as a society benefit from having stricter background checks on these sort of citizens? 

I don't think there is a realistic solution to solving America's gun violence problem. The government can't take away all the weapons because of the second amendment, but also because the idea of gun ownership is too ingrained in American culture, to the point where the government stripping firearms from citizens would lead to civil unrest. There certain situations where we cannot definitely depend on the police to keep us protected, and thus we need firearms to protect ourselves, such as in rural parts of the country where the nearest police station is hours away, or in the wilderness where we can be threatened by animals. I could even go further and say that we cannot trust the police period to ensure our own safety, since it is not the police's responsibility to protect us. So having a weapon to protect yourself would be a wiser decision rather than depending on the civility among strangers.

Also, there is the fact that there are too many guns on the streets now. So the government could try to take all the weapons away, however since there are so many guns out there, there is a chance that the government could miss out on a large amount that would end up being used in crimes, despite their best efforts.

Sgt. Dick: I don't really think the "good guy with a gun" scenario works out too well in real life. There are three problems that I think would arise with citizen trying to neutralize perpetrators in shooting incidents:

1) Lack of information: Citizens don't have access to a communication network which keeps police officers up-to-date on information about incidents as they develop in real time. This includes the description and number of the suspected assailants, where their location is, what weapons they might be armed with, a layout or basic description of the building they are in, etc. This sort of information is what a citizen in such an incident would lack, which hinders his ability to make the best decision possible.

Think about it: if you were an armed citizen in a shooting incident and didn't know if there were multiple threats and where they were most likely located, would you want to risk making yourself a target among the assailants? Probably not. Another issue which is similar to this is that you could become the target of the police, since they might not have an accurate description of the suspects and might thus assume you are one of them since you are armed.

2) Lack of training: Citizens do not undergo specialized training which helps prepare them to react under fire, in shooting incidents or hostage situations, so the chance for citizens to make the correct decisions in a chaotic and highly stressful situation are lower; and their lack of training in such areas actually increases the risk of someone getting harmed.

3) Liability: Citizens aren't protected against the law if a mishap occurs. If any damages are done, citizens are able to be sued while police officers cannot be.
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Offline quadz

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Re: another terrorist attack
« Reply #1714 on: June 12, 2016, 10:47:53 PM »
even if you have the most strictest gun control in the whole universe, people with intentions will always find a way to get hold of a weapon.
if Islamists wont be able to get hold of a gun, they will find other ways to annihilate what they call as infidels.

Agreed; It's two separate issues, perhaps?

1. Dedicated killers: Jihadists, or any other kind of psycho--especially if suicidal--will break any kind of law to acquire deadly force. (As someone remarked with regard to the Islamic Boston Marathon bombing, have we seen any calls to outlaw pressure cookers?)

2. Reflex killers: If acquiring a firearm required some sort of competency test (perhaps akin to a pilot's test for flying a single-engine plane) -- it seems plausible we'd cut down on certain kinds of firearm deaths.

Seems to me, trying to enact legislation to reduce deaths from #1, is pretty different from proposals to reduce deaths from #2.

But they always try to lump both together?

:exqueezeme:


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Offline Barton

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Re: another terrorist attack
« Reply #1715 on: June 12, 2016, 11:14:18 PM »
More background history on Omar Mateen. Apparently he was mentally not right, as we figured: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36513468
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Offline quadz

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Re: another terrorist attack
« Reply #1716 on: June 12, 2016, 11:22:00 PM »
Lack of training: Citizens do not undergo specialized training which helps prepare them to react under fire, in shooting incidents or hostage situations, so the chance for citizens to make the correct decisions in a chaotic and highly stressful situation are lower; and their lack of training in such areas actually increases the risk of someone getting harmed.

Agreed on the Lack of Training part.


Think about it: if you were an armed citizen in a shooting incident and didn't know if there were multiple threats and where they were most likely located, would you want to risk making yourself a target among the assailants? Probably not. Another issue which is similar to this is that you could become the target of the police, since they might not have an accurate description of the suspects and might thus assume you are one of them since you are armed.

Not sure if the risk scenario plays out.

We had a guy texting his mom, "we're in the bathrooms... he's in here with us... we're going to die."

You seem to be suggesting he wouldn't want to make himself a target--but we already know that. (Who wants to be targeted?)

But we have people hiding, waiting for death to arrive.

If you had to be in that situation, would you rather be trained and have a firearm?

(BTW, I'm not suggesting ppl tend to go dancing at a club carrying firearms. I agree it's a hard problem. But I disagree with the idea that trained individuals wouldn't prefer to be armed in such a scenario.)

:exqueezeme:


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Offline quadz

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Re: another terrorist attack
« Reply #1717 on: June 12, 2016, 11:32:59 PM »
More background history on Omar Mateen. Apparently he was mentally not right, as we figured: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36513468

In which way was he mentally not right? The part about beating his wife?

You and I might agree that's mentally not right, but is there any doubt about what Muhammad prescribed?

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Offline quadz

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Re: another terrorist attack
« Reply #1718 on: June 12, 2016, 11:47:35 PM »
Ah, the 1%-ers

Quote

https://twitter.com/LaloDagach/status/742240145030533120

% of Muslims who say homosexuality is morally acceptable:

Iraq 1%
Egypt 1%
Lebanon 1%
Pakistan 1%
Pal. Terr. 1%



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Offline Barton

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Re: another terrorist attack
« Reply #1719 on: June 13, 2016, 01:22:58 AM »
In which way was he mentally not right? The part about beating his wife?

You and I might agree that's mentally not right, but is there any doubt about what Muhammad prescribed?

I meant that he had the propensity to lose his bearings and result to violence when getting angry. If we're talking about the reason why he killed those people at the gay nightclub, it's clearly because of Islam. Muhammad recommended death to men caught having sex with each other in Hadiths. That is precisely why we see the death penalty for sodomy in countries that practice Sharia like Saudi Arabia and Iran.

Unfortunately, our politicians like Obama and many on the left (mostly the regressive left) are afraid of straying away from the narrative that Islam is a religion of peace, and that anything bad done by Muslims do is due to them being radicals or extremists (but how can that be really true if some of these inhuman acts were done by their own prophet who is suppose to be the most perfect human being and his behaviors should be emulated?). I am not sure why they do this, although my main guess is to not appear as racist, even though Islam is a religion and ideology; not a race. Another reason might be that politicians don't want to create civil unrest within their own borders with Muslims or incite more terrorist attacks from  more radical Islamists. 
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Offline Barton

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Re: another terrorist attack
« Reply #1720 on: June 13, 2016, 01:36:17 AM »

Not sure if the risk scenario plays out.

We had a guy texting his mom, "we're in the bathrooms... he's in here with us... we're going to die."

You seem to be suggesting he wouldn't want to make himself a target--but we already know that. (Who wants to be targeted?)

But we have people hiding, waiting for death to arrive.

If you had to be in that situation, would you rather be trained and have a firearm?

(BTW, I'm not suggesting ppl tend to go dancing at a club carrying firearms. I agree it's a hard problem. But I disagree with the idea that trained individuals wouldn't prefer to be armed in such a scenario.)

:exqueezeme:

It's a difficult question to answer because what to do as an innocent bystander depends on the situation. Can you escape of the building or area? Is there even a place to hide where you can barricade yourself from the attacker? If you have a clear shot, can you take out the shooter? I think the best answer is to do whatever you think is necessary to save yourself. If you are armed and feel threatened, and think that you could take the shooter out, then perhaps it might be worth taking that chance. However, if you guessed wrong and there are multiple shooters, then your actions might make the situation worst for yourself and the other hostages. *shrug*

A club might be a better setting to take action against shooter if you can since there aren't many escape exits or places to hide and barricade yourself away from the shooter, which is the best advice I've heard of what to do in a shooter incident, unless you are already a hostage. *shrug*
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Offline |iR|Focalor

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Re: another terrorist attack
« Reply #1721 on: June 13, 2016, 03:12:56 AM »
Lack of training: Citizens do not undergo specialized training which helps prepare them to react under fire, in shooting incidents or hostage situations, so the chance for citizens to make the correct decisions in a chaotic and highly stressful situation are lower; and their lack of training in such areas actually increases the risk of someone getting harmed.

Agreed on the Lack of Training part.


Think about it: if you were an armed citizen in a shooting incident and didn't know if there were multiple threats and where they were most likely located, would you want to risk making yourself a target among the assailants? Probably not. Another issue which is similar to this is that you could become the target of the police, since they might not have an accurate description of the suspects and might thus assume you are one of them since you are armed.

Not sure if the risk scenario plays out.

We had a guy texting his mom, "we're in the bathrooms... he's in here with us... we're going to die."

You seem to be suggesting he wouldn't want to make himself a target--but we already know that. (Who wants to be targeted?)

But we have people hiding, waiting for death to arrive.

If you had to be in that situation, would you rather be trained and have a firearm?

(BTW, I'm not suggesting ppl tend to go dancing at a club carrying firearms. I agree it's a hard problem. But I disagree with the idea that trained individuals wouldn't prefer to be armed in such a scenario.)

:exqueezeme:

If you go to any establishment that serves alcoholic beverages, in most states, it is illegal to possess your permitted concealed carry weapon. In some states however, including my home state of Georgia, they have recently changed the law to give bar owners the individual prerogative to allow patrons to carry their permitted weapons on the premises. HOWEVERRRRRrrrrrrr....... this does not override in any way the other part of the states lawful concealed carry rules which states that it is illegal to be in possession of a lawfully permitted concealed carry weapon while under the influence. And to be charged with "under the influence" in this case, just as when you're operating a motor vehicle, can be a BAC level of .03 or higher, which is less than half a beer. I've seen DUI awareness commercials in the past stating, "Over the limit, under arrest.", but they need to go back to the old catchphrase of "Zero tolerance." Using phrases like "Over the limit" is kinda intentionally misleading. There is NO acceptable amount of alcohol to legally/safely drink before getting behind the wheel in a police officer's eyes. When they ask you, "Have you had anything to drink tonight, sir?" The ONLY fucking right answer in their opinion is "NO." Kinda getting away from the point here though, so... okay. But the point is cars and guns can be deadly. You are NEVER supposed to use either one after drinking any amount of alcohol.

If I was in a situation where I was cornered in a bar and some psycho was going booth to booth shooting people, would I want to have my revolver on me? Fuck yes, I would. I'd have that shit pointed at his head the second I was sure he couldn't see me draw and aim at him. But in a situation like that... yeah, like Barton said, I'd be a little be hesitant to whip it out and play the fucking hero. That's sometimes how a hero can end up saving his own life from a psycho only to lose it to the cop who just walked up that instant and only saw me with a gun shooting another man. Furthermore, I'd be frozen beforehand spending time processing the pros and cons of shooting said murderous asshole knowing that one of things falling into the con category would be the fact that I'd probably be charged with something for even possessing the weapon inside a bar, much less using it on someone. "Maybe he'll stop and leave before he gets to me.", which would be a horrible fucking thing to be thinking for most people when they know they can prevent other innocent people from being killed, but... they maybe haven't been to jail before either, and I know how bad it sucks, so yeah, I'm gonna stop and think a little about it first.
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Offline haunted

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Re: another terrorist attack
« Reply #1722 on: June 13, 2016, 05:33:19 AM »
BAC .03 is about a full beer for the average guy. I think 1 beer is .028 for a dude weighing 185.
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Offline |iR|Focalor

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Re: another terrorist attack
« Reply #1723 on: June 13, 2016, 08:13:31 AM »
BAC .03 is about a full beer for the average guy. I think 1 beer is .028 for a dude weighing 185.


Nah, trust me, I've done DUI school on 3 occasions (not bragging, wish it was 0) and they always tell you that on average, a person will have a BAC of .08 after 1 glass of wine, 1 shot of spirits, or 1 12oz beer, and that on average it takes 1 hour to metabolize and eliminate 1 drink from your system. (This only includes beers at about 5.5% alc and liquors at about 80proof, NOT 190proof shit like Golden Grain or Rock & Rye, hint hint) And .08 BAC is what they dubiously term the "legal limit", but technically the REAL limit is .03. At .04 and higher, an officer can arrest you and charge you with DUI if they feel like it. I've heard a person can sometimes blow about a .04 just from using mouth wash or spritzing some Binaca breath spray recently before the test is administered, dunno if that's 100% fact.

The legal limit for using a firearm though? Surprisingly, it's NOT .000 like it probably should be. It's on the books as .08, same as with driving. However, (and here's where the .04 and up thing comes into play) the law also states separately that "under the inluence" can be interpreted by law enforcement as "to the extent that it is unsafe", which actually makes it possible for them to charge you with the crime for any BAC higher than .000. But most departments keep with protocol where they will only deem you "less safe" for a BAC of .04 or more.
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Re: another terrorist attack
« Reply #1724 on: June 13, 2016, 10:22:40 AM »
My school taught me otherwise. I specifically remember the .028 number. Ya gotta be wrong man think about it. .45 is "legally dead" if I remember right. So downing 5 ice beers immediately puts you there? HELLLLLL no. Do you know how many times I did back to back TRIPLE beer bongs of milwakee's best ice?!?!? Google it, your class just exaggerated for dramatic effect probably . I did, I got this link:

http://www.brad21.org/bac_charts.html
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