I honestly don't know why you guys bother with reaper, he doesn't understand elementary science and has no concept of logic and reasoning.
but I state the present circumstance of atheism, and you're not happy with it.
What is wrong with discussing the implications of people having no fear of god, and its affects on civiliazation throughout time?
Some nations may have higher percentages of Christians, but I do not think that there are ANY Christian nations. Muslim nations, yes; atheist nations, yes; Christian nations, no.
As to your idea that secular nations have the best ranking, I noticed that they almost all follow Judeo-Christian morals. By the way, where did these morals come from if not from God--I mean, why not steal somebody's car if you can get away with it if there is no God to punish you? Survival of the fittest dictates that we struggle tooth-and-claw with each other to raise ourselves above everybody else in order to produce offspring of higher caliber than everybody else and ensure survival of the fittest.
The very idea of the Judeo-Christian God is evidence of His existence. Therefore, SOMETHING, at least, has to have existed that could give man an idea of an all-powerful being.
I looked at your article, and I noticed that the ultra-religious nations that have the highest score tend to be African animist (animal/earth-worshiping) or fanatical Muslim nations. "Christian" nations don't really exist, as Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, the world would accept you. But as it is, they hate you because they hated me." Some nations may have higher percentages of Christians, but I do not think that there are ANY Christian nations. Muslim nations, yes; atheist nations, yes; Christian nations, no.
Quote from: quadzFinally, are you willing to take Christopher Hitchens' challenge?Here it is, in two parts:"If it is to be argued that our morality or ethics can be derived from the supernatural, then (1) NAME me an action -- MORAL action taken by a believer or moral statement uttered by one that could not have been made or uttered by an infidel.""But If I were to ask you, (2) can you think of a WICKED action that could ONLY have been performed by someone who believe they were on an errand from God, there isn't one of you who would take 10 seconds to give me an example. So what does that tell us? I would say it tells us a lot..."Ready? Set? Go.tick...tick...tick...tick...tick...tick...tick...BING!The very idea of the Judeo-Christian God is evidence of His existence.
Finally, are you willing to take Christopher Hitchens' challenge?Here it is, in two parts:"If it is to be argued that our morality or ethics can be derived from the supernatural, then (1) NAME me an action -- MORAL action taken by a believer or moral statement uttered by one that could not have been made or uttered by an infidel.""But If I were to ask you, (2) can you think of a WICKED action that could ONLY have been performed by someone who believe they were on an errand from God, there isn't one of you who would take 10 seconds to give me an example. So what does that tell us? I would say it tells us a lot..."Ready? Set? Go.
Buddha went from being a man (Siddhart Gautama) to being a "god",
God, however, would have been impossible for man to conceive totally in his own mind because there were no precedents. Nobody would ever think up someone who is totally omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent; spirit, God-in-the-flesh, and three-in-one; and lord, master, and king. Therefore, SOMETHING, at least, has to have existed that could give man an idea of an all-powerful being.
Don't forget the many different tribes of people in northern europe who were "godless barbarians" and thus needed to be slaughtered and have their ancestral lands taken from them.Or the Native American populations who were crushed under the heel of christianization, which was supposedly for their own good. (or for the express purpose of levying a 10% tax on people that they could not avoid without being evil, and dehumanizing them so it was fine to rape their women, enslave their children and rob them of their resources and land)Christianity has been a giant land grab for centuries, and a convenient tool of those in power to keep those not in power down, by lending a regime legitimacy that comes from an all-knowing and all-powerful source which can't be argued with or questioned. It was used in the same way that Islam is used in modern day Iran:To prop up dictators and keep people subservient to the government, even when that government does not represent the ideals of it's people.The italians used it for years to control the politics of the european continent, the spanish used it as justification to rape the shit out of the americas, the british used it to keep their own people down and to enforce taxation on them.There are tons of examples of this which, when weighed against the supposed positive aspects of religion, compell me to deny that there is any reason for religions like christianity to be considered good or beneficial to mankind or civilization.
Wow.... I really got under your skin.
Quote from: quadzAre you seriously telling me you personally feel that you yourself would run out and start stealing cars if you lost your fear of Hell?No. I try to obey God and follow the law. I'm trying to ask why somebody wouldn't commit heinous crimes if nobody (like God) was there to stop it?
Are you seriously telling me you personally feel that you yourself would run out and start stealing cars if you lost your fear of Hell?
Adolf Hitler, an atheist, murdered 6 million Jews and more people from other groups. Joseph Stalin, another atheist, murdered 32+ million Jews and untold millions of other people. Mao Zedong, still another atheist, murdered and crushed many people in Tiamenan Square, and he also killed many other people. The godless dictators of North Korea have allowed 2 million of their own people to starve and even now are ready to allow millions more to starve. Thus, according to your own reasoning, atheism, not Christianity, has killed more people.
Born and bred a Catholic, he grew up in a religion and in a culture that was anti-semitic, and in persecuting Jews, he repeatedly proclaimed he was doing the "Lord's work."You will find it in Mein Kampf.- "Therefore, I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work."Hitler said it again at a Nazi Christmas celebration in 1926: "Christ was the greatest early fighter in the battle against the world enemy, the Jews . . . The work that Christ started but could not finish, I--Adolf Hitler--will conclude."In a Reichstag speech in 1938, Hitler again echoed the religious origins of his crusade. "I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews, I am fighting for the Lord's work. "Hitler regarded himself as a Catholic until he died. "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so," he told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals, in 1941.
I know many nice atheists, so don't think that I hate atheists because they are atheists and that atheists are all these evil, immoral, treacherous individuals. I don't think that at all.
No. I try to obey God and follow the law. I'm trying to ask why somebody wouldn't commit heinous crimes if nobody (like God) was there to stop it? Adolf Hitler, an atheist, murdered 6 million Jews and more people from other groups. Joseph Stalin, another atheist, murdered 32+ million Jews and untold millions of other people. Mao Zedong, still another atheist, murdered and crushed many people in Tiamenan Square, and he also killed many other people. The godless dictators of North Korea have allowed 2 million of their own people to starve and even now are ready to allow millions more to starve. Thus, according to your own reasoning, atheism, not Christianity, has killed more people.
You have phrased that in a most interesting way. (In practice, God doesn't seem to be doing a great job of stopping crimes, heinous or otherwise.)