Author Topic: Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread  (Read 24688 times)

Offline Punk_FAS

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Re: Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread
« Reply #255 on: May 19, 2020, 03:13:06 PM »
"When you fuck up so badly that a major scientific journal publishes a letter calling you out on your bullshit"

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Offline Punk_FAS

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Re: Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread
« Reply #256 on: May 19, 2020, 05:32:47 PM »
Florida Ousts Top COVID-19 Data Scientist

Quote
A data scientist who created a dashboard to track Florida's COVID-19 cases says she's been fired from the state's health department for refusing to "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/05/19/859119865/florida-ousts-top-covid-19-data-scientist
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Offline haunted

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Re: Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread
« Reply #257 on: May 19, 2020, 06:34:14 PM »
Did trump specifically cite the Lancet in his allegations for releasing a report in December? I'm asking because I assume you checked up on this.

Assuming he did, it says including reports by the Lancet, but they proceed to discredit the entirety of trump's allegations. There's something odd about that, and it smells like an agenda-driven "call out".

In my opinion if it was a good call out I wouldn't ask questions or make observations like that. Just seems off even though I didn't bother checking. Plus even if I despised trump to no end I don't think I could post something hating on him that carried the extra baggage of praising/defending Tedros Adhanom   :lolsign:
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Offline Punk_FAS

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Re: Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread
« Reply #258 on: May 19, 2020, 08:04:56 PM »
it says including reports by the Lancet

Trump cites "credible reports". He decides to list one specific name, and intentionally chooses a very reputable name in The Lancet. It turns out the one name he chooses, which presumably would be the most well-supported as far as his claim goes, is not remotely true.

There's something odd about that, and it smells like an agenda-driven "call out".

It baffles me how you apparently don't see that Trump is literally doing what you're implying The Lancet is doing.
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Offline Sgt. Dick

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Re: Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread
« Reply #259 on: May 19, 2020, 08:42:54 PM »
Florida Ousts Top COVID-19 Data Scientist

Quote
A data scientist who created a dashboard to track Florida's COVID-19 cases says she's been fired from the state's health department for refusing to "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/05/19/859119865/florida-ousts-top-covid-19-data-scientist

Here is the Florida COVID-19 website - https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/96dd742462124fa0b38ddedb9b25e429

I think what your are saying is - this website will no longer show certain data or the data will be changed to make things look better?
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Offline Punk_FAS

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Re: Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread
« Reply #260 on: May 19, 2020, 09:13:05 PM »
Florida Ousts Top COVID-19 Data Scientist

Quote
A data scientist who created a dashboard to track Florida's COVID-19 cases says she's been fired from the state's health department for refusing to "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/05/19/859119865/florida-ousts-top-covid-19-data-scientist

Here is the Florida COVID-19 website - https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/96dd742462124fa0b38ddedb9b25e429

I think what your are saying is - this website will no longer show certain data or the data will be changed to make things look better?

That's what the data scientist that created that site is claiming - I'm not saying anything.
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Offline quadz

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Re: Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread
« Reply #261 on: May 19, 2020, 11:49:46 PM »
"When you fuck up so badly that a major scientific journal publishes a letter calling you out on your bullshit"

By all means call out Trump when he's wrong on the facts.

But the response from The Lancet was also disingenuous in its framing — a strange choice when one is angling for the moral high ground.

Specifically:

Quote from: The Lancet
President Trump wrote that "we know the following" and the first allegation he makes is that WHO "consistently ignored credible reports of the virus spreading in Wuhan in early December 2019 or even earlier, including reports from The Lancet medical journal. The World Health Organization failed to independently investigate credible reports that conflicted directly with the Chinese government's official accounts, even those that came from sources within Wuhan itself."

This statement is factually incorrect.

Now, implying the entirety of the statement is factually incorrect is some damned dishonest framing.

I started following daily updates on the Wuhan outbreak in mid-January, as a particular Twitter account I happened to follow became obsessed with the reports and clandestine video clips emerging from China.

So it was rather something in mid-late January, juxtaposing citizen journalism from Wuhan with the clownish parroting of the Chinese government's official position by the WHO: playing down the likelihood of human-to-human transmission.

WHO January 19: "No clear evidence for sustained h2h"

WHO January 23: "No evidence for h2h outside China"

Meanwhile, we now know, if I understand the following data visualization from nextstrain.org, that by January 22, the virus had already genetically diverged multiple times, and spread to numerous countries:



But: Even though we lacked this level of analysis back in January, we definitely had information leaking from Chinese citizens indicating a serious problem.

So I'd have to rate Trump's statement above as "overall factually fucking correct" with an asterisk for (*) wrong about The Lancet citation.



On a general note - something I've observed repeatedly over the past 3+ years: Even when Trump is not lying to deceive, he frequently (as we know) engages in exaggeration and hyperbole. Such flourishes have nonetheless been called out by his critics as "lies" - even in cases where the statement Trump is making is still directionally correct.

I tend to view such attempts at framing a directionally correct statement as a 'lie', as a (tactical) mistake by Trump's critics, in that I suspect Trump's supporters are more attuned to this 'directionality' than his critics suppose. (Harkening back to that classic observation from 2016 about how Trump's supporters take him seriously but not literally; while his critics take him literally but not seriously.)

:shrug:
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 12:07:52 AM by quadz »
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Offline haunted

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Re: Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread
« Reply #262 on: May 20, 2020, 12:33:01 AM »
Yup^

Quote from: Punk_FAS
It baffles me how you apparently don't see that Trump is literally doing what you're implying The Lancet is doing.

Is it really that baffling to read that and think "worst case scenario trump was just wrong about the Lancet"?
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Offline Punk_FAS

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Re: Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread
« Reply #263 on: May 20, 2020, 12:59:56 AM »
Now, implying the entirety of the statement is factually incorrect is some damned dishonest framing.

Isn't a core part of Trump's claim that these things happened in December of 2019 "or even earlier" ? Isn't that why they're so important (because of the supposed delay which reduced the opportunity to prepare)? Everything you're listing is from mid January. Also, who gets to decide what reports meet the threshold of "credible", from a medical science standpoint, between Trump's admin and the WHO? Which scientific body is it, or who are the experts on Trump's admin, that reached these conclusions? Other than The Lancet, who is Trump referencing? You're putting your stamp of approval on Trump's overall claims because of Twitter users/accounts you recall coming across?
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Offline Punk_FAS

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Re: Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread
« Reply #264 on: May 20, 2020, 01:04:08 AM »
Yup^

Quote from: Punk_FAS
It baffles me how you apparently don't see that Trump is literally doing what you're implying The Lancet is doing.

Is it really that baffling to read that and think "worst case scenario trump was just wrong about the Lancet"?

It was an official letter drafted by Trump and his team (almost certainly having almost zero input, from a substantive standpoint, from Trump himself). You don't just throw out names willy-nilly in such an official document. That calls into question (or at least it damn well should) all of the research (to the extent there was any) and claims of the remainder of the document. This is acceptable for grievances aired out at a PTA meeting, but not by the executive office of the POTUS.
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Offline Sgt. Dick

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Re: Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread
« Reply #265 on: May 20, 2020, 05:40:13 AM »
Florida Ousts Top COVID-19 Data Scientist

Quote
A data scientist who created a dashboard to track Florida's COVID-19 cases says she's been fired from the state's health department for refusing to "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/05/19/859119865/florida-ousts-top-covid-19-data-scientist

Here is the Florida COVID-19 website - https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/96dd742462124fa0b38ddedb9b25e429

I think what your are saying is - this website will no longer show certain data or the data will be changed to make things look better?

That's what the data scientist that created that site is claiming - I'm not saying anything.

Here is a story about the Gov. response - https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/20/coronavirus-florida-gov-ron-desantis-disputes-data-manipulation/5226744002/

Somebody is not telling the truth  :raincloud:  I am not going to take a side, because I do not have the knowledge to do so.
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Offline |iR|Focalor

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Re: Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread
« Reply #266 on: May 20, 2020, 05:56:11 AM »
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Re: Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread
« Reply #267 on: May 20, 2020, 06:17:20 AM »
Speaking of hating Donald Trump for everything he does... :-[

I guess it was last week when this was a major headline:

"Trump mobilizing U.S. military to deliver coronavirus vaccine"

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trump/trump-mobilizing-u-s-military-to-deliver-coronavirus-vaccine-idUSKBN22Q1Q2

Because when I saw it, I said, "They have a vaccine already!?! THAT'S TITS!!!" But alas, it was more of the Trump stroke-a-dick schtick. But none of the stories I read on this revelation went into much detail about precisely what he means by "military". Unless I am mistaken, it is unconstitutional to deploy the military (excepting the National Guard) within the US territories for any official active purposes including policing.

Hopefully he did mean just the National Guard would be tapped to help. Because if "emergency powers" are used to deploy the regular military, that sets a dangerous precedent. I don't think Trump would go Hitler and usurp power, and even if he had the balls to try, he couldn't succeed in my opinion. But later down the road, someone else might.

It's mostly just my mistrusting brain thinking dumb shit aloud. However... Trump doesn't need to be talking about getting a vaccine deployed if one isn't on the horizon.

Dear Mr Trump. VACCINE. Keep that word outta your fuckin' mouth until you have one, rug headed retard.
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Offline haunted

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Re: Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread
« Reply #268 on: May 20, 2020, 07:42:17 AM »
We already know what the WHO and it's director did far before trump's team drafted that letter. I'll repeat, we already knew the direction and premise behind trump's allegations were true far before he made them. I'll point out again that in order to back the narrative that letter presents you must also praise/defend Tedros Adhanom, and deny what we KNOW about how he initially handled this outbreak and his relationship with China. That's a hell of a lot of extra baggage to carry all because the allegations were wrong about one medical journal.

Speaking of Lancet:

https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3082606/its-unfair-blame-china-coronavirus-pandemic-lancet-editor-tells

... Richard Horton is one of trump's biggest critics as well. So yeah, obvious agenda is obvious.
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Offline metaL

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Re: Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread
« Reply #269 on: May 20, 2020, 05:40:30 PM »
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