Poll

If Zimmerman is found "not guilty" of murder/manslaughter, do you think the verdict will cause race riots?

Yes
8 (38.1%)
No
13 (61.9%)

Total Members Voted: 20

Author Topic: The Zimmerman Trial... Possible Race Riots?  (Read 35234 times)

Offline random

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Re: The Zimmerman Trial... Possible Race Riots?
« Reply #45 on: July 18, 2013, 02:47:44 AM »
Wrong. I would suggest that you actually learn what the law says before thinking that "anyone can make a citizens arrest". You see someone on the street doing something you say is illegal. You point a weapon at them, handcuff them, put them in your vehicle, and drive them to the nearest police station. Congratulations, you've just committed aggravated kidnapping. If you checked their pockets for weapons and have removed any items, thats another charge of unlawful search.

Regular citizens performing arrests are held to much more scrutiny for their actions when arresting someone. They must be able to prove that a crime was committed, they must have 2 or more witnesses to corroborate your accusation, and you are not entitled to enter their private residence or property to arrest them. Basically, you aren't allowed to break ANY laws in the course of effecting the arresting. Even more basically, it's a better idea to not attempt to make a citizens arrest because the person you are arresting can potentially file charges of their own against you. You can instantly become a felon by only trying to do the right thing.

I'd like to know where you get your facts.

State of CA Code 837:
A private person may arrest another:
   1. For a public offense committed or attempted in his presence.
   2. When the person arrested has committed a felony, although not
in his presence.
   3. When a felony has been in fact committed, and he has reasonable
cause for believing the person arrested to have committed it.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=833-851.90


State of CA Code 207-210:
207.  (a) Every person who forcibly, or by any other means of
instilling fear, steals or takes, or holds, detains, or arrests any
person in this state, and carries the person into another country,
state, or county, or into another part of the same county, is guilty
of kidnapping.
---
(f) Subdivisions (a) to (d), inclusive, do not apply to any of the
following:
   (1) To any person who steals, takes, entices away, detains,
conceals, or harbors any child under the age of 14 years, if that act
is taken to protect the child from danger of imminent harm.
   (2) To any person acting under Section 834 or 837.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=207-210
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Offline |iR|Focalor

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Re: The Zimmerman Trial... Possible Race Riots?
« Reply #46 on: July 18, 2013, 04:11:13 AM »
State of CA Code 837:
A private person may arrest another:
   1. For a public offense committed or attempted in his presence.
   2. When the person arrested has committed a felony, although not
in his presence.
   3. When a felony has been in fact committed, and he has reasonable
cause for believing the person arrested to have committed it.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=833-851.90


State of CA Code 207-210:
207.  (a) Every person who forcibly, or by any other means of
instilling fear, steals or takes, or holds, detains, or arrests any
person in this state, and carries the person into another country,
state, or county, or into another part of the same county, is guilty
of kidnapping.
---
(f) Subdivisions (a) to (d), inclusive, do not apply to any of the
following:
   (1) To any person who steals, takes, entices away, detains,
conceals, or harbors any child under the age of 14 years, if that act
is taken to protect the child from danger of imminent harm.
   (2) To any person acting under Section 834 or 837.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=207-210

Right, but this code does not clarify what constitutes legal means by which a private citizen is allowed to detain or arrest another person. It does not say that you are or are not allowed to use a weapon to convince the person to comply. It does not say that it is acceptable to force them into the trunk of a car. In certain instances when you are not the direct victim of the alleged crime, it is ultimately not YOU who has the authority to make charges against the person, it is up to the police. Like I said, regular citizens are subject to more scrutiny when making a citizens arrest, and rightly SHOULD be. If you make a mistake, it can quickly become YOU who is facing a list of charges.

I realize the wording I used made it sound as if citizens arrests are completely illegal. They aren't. Ideally the police would prefer it if citizens let them handle it. Most of the time that it's invoked, it's used as a means for citizens present during a robbery/assault/murder to temporarily detain a perpetrator until the police arrive. Making a citizens arrest beyond a situation like that is not smart at all.

what extra training does a cop have that a citizen doesn't when it comes to assessing whether someone is suspicious and possibly committing a crime vs minding his own business?

What training? Plenty. Did you take the Basic Law Enforcement Training course offered to law enforcement candidates in your state? No? Well then you're already about 400 hours worth of training time behind them. Not to mention that police officers, unlike private citizens, have the luxury of claiming "mistake of fact" in legal proceedings to reduce or eliminate all civil and criminal liability.
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Offline 2d

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Re: The Zimmerman Trial... Possible Race Riots?
« Reply #47 on: July 18, 2013, 02:44:24 PM »
what extra training does a cop have that a citizen doesn't when it comes to assessing whether someone is suspicious and possibly committing a crime vs minding his own business?

What training? Plenty. Did you take the Basic Law Enforcement Training course offered to law enforcement candidates in your state? No? Well then you're already about 400 hours worth of training time behind them. Not to mention that police officers, unlike private citizens, have the luxury of claiming "mistake of fact" in legal proceedings to reduce or eliminate all civil and criminal liability.

Cops are usually the last ones to arrive on the scene. By the time they are notified, the crime has already happened and they are trying to put the pieces together. I think it is a rarity that a cop is out stopping crime before it even happens.

The average citizen can probably spot a drug deal.
Civilians spy on and catch shoplifters at work, then call the police
People usually know their own streets, and can tell when someone out of the ordinary is trolling around looking to break into a car or scoping out homes.
If a fight is breaking out, or gangs are confronting each other, it doesn't take a genius or a cop to realize something is going to go down.

So you're telling me i need to take 400 hours of training before using my common sense. I have to be certified to properly point out a crime because otherwise I am an ignorable novice.

What planet are you living on focalor. The only time police are out trying to catch people is during prostitute stings or video taping some dumb broad trying to hire someone to kill her husband. The rest of the time, regular people are the ones making judgments and assessing when to call 911.



 :welcome:
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 02:50:43 PM by 2d »
[14:05] <MoIOM|haunted> I challenged 2dum to a .....match.....
[14:06] <MoIOM|haunted> he beat me 4-3, although i blew myself up twice :>
[23:04] <[2d> i can now die in peace ROFL!

Offline fdrjk

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Re: The Zimmerman Trial... Possible Race Riots?
« Reply #48 on: July 18, 2013, 04:37:57 PM »
you know absolutely nothing about cops/ the protocol and procedures they have to do before acting on a crime.

ps, ur dumb
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Offline Whirlingdervish

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Re: The Zimmerman Trial... Possible Race Riots?
« Reply #49 on: July 18, 2013, 04:47:23 PM »
you know absolutely nothing about cops/ the protocol and procedures they have to do before acting on a crime.

ps, ur dumb

+1
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Offline haunted

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Re: The Zimmerman Trial... Possible Race Riots?
« Reply #50 on: July 18, 2013, 05:12:45 PM »
This is just an outcry since 2dum feels like he's been robbed of his ability to "assault" focalor.

<[2dum> ex, people only click on the updated threads
<[2dum> if its not going to be updated, no one will go in
<haunted> no one has ever gave a shit about the smack talk section anyway
<ex_> I click on the main forum and scroll through it for blue lights
<haunted> only your childish ass
<haunted> have fun with it
<ex_> smack nowadays isn't what it used to be anyway
<[2dum> ya it was fun to assault focalor
<[2dum> and he assaulted me
<haunted> "assault"
<haunted> lol.

Should probably just delete his posts from now on.
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Offline 2d

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Re: The Zimmerman Trial... Possible Race Riots?
« Reply #51 on: July 18, 2013, 05:34:19 PM »
you know absolutely nothing about cops/ the protocol and procedures they have to do before acting on a crime.

ps, ur dumb
1 word: observe
it doesn't take 1 billion protocols and procedures just to open your eyes and take a look at whats going on

At least i took criminal law in college and read case law
[14:05] <MoIOM|haunted> I challenged 2dum to a .....match.....
[14:06] <MoIOM|haunted> he beat me 4-3, although i blew myself up twice :>
[23:04] <[2d> i can now die in peace ROFL!

Offline haunted

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Re: The Zimmerman Trial... Possible Race Riots?
« Reply #52 on: July 18, 2013, 05:43:40 PM »
Like I said, 2dum's objective isn't to contribute to this thread. Just delete the last handful of posts.
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Offline 2d

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Re: The Zimmerman Trial... Possible Race Riots?
« Reply #53 on: July 18, 2013, 05:56:24 PM »
Like I said, 2dum's objective isn't to contribute to this thread. Just delete the last handful of posts.

Well if you go back to page 3 i responded to ex.
Focalor is the one who attacked and responded to my comments
I am contributing with my opinions and my defense, am i not allowed to do so?

You on the other hand are the one trying to create drama. kindly stay on topic or shut the fuck up
[14:05] <MoIOM|haunted> I challenged 2dum to a .....match.....
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Offline haunted

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Re: The Zimmerman Trial... Possible Race Riots?
« Reply #54 on: July 18, 2013, 06:07:28 PM »
The only reason why you're posting in this thread is from the smack talk section not being publicized on the home page anymore.. you've already made that clear.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/07/17/10-Facts-the-media-Arent-telling-you-about-the-zimmerman-case
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Offline R. Hayabusa

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Re: The Zimmerman Trial... Possible Race Riots?
« Reply #55 on: July 18, 2013, 06:24:27 PM »
after reading some of the comments here, quadz actually came up with a good rebuttal with his article he posted. it has already been explained why people very rarely ever make citizens arrests. It's because most of the time theose that do, usually are held liable for their "act of goodness". As for the whole if you see something say something thing. it's a crock. it's probably better to mind your own business, unless it was a major crime that's harming someone. if not, people really should mind their own.

also, another point to mention is how lazy people are. the more i read and research about this zimmerman trial, the more i am inclined to think that there actually was a fair trial. also what was forgotten to be mentioned, was the question as to the coroner reports on trayvon's body. did he have contusions, broken bones or cartilige from blunt trama from a fight? (discounting the bullet wound) I'm sure the jury must have delved into that.

if it is true that trayvon had stolen possessions and a slightly checkered past, on top of the many reports of black teens committing crimes in the area. well i have to conclude that it was a fair trial after all. i do think zimmerman still should not have followed, then again he was a watchman, so it wouldn't be out of his right or anyone elses to investigate their neighborhood. we don't know who actually hit first so since that is the deciding factor, that will remain a mystery. people must never be complacent when seeking truth.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 06:53:19 PM by Golgo13 »
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Offline random

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Re: The Zimmerman Trial... Possible Race Riots?
« Reply #57 on: July 18, 2013, 06:58:18 PM »
Right, but this code does not clarify what constitutes legal means by which a private citizen is allowed to detain or arrest another person. It does not say that you are or are not allowed to use a weapon to convince the person to comply. It does not say that it is acceptable to force them into the trunk of a car. In certain instances when you are not the direct victim of the alleged crime, it is ultimately not YOU who has the authority to make charges against the person, it is up to the police. Like I said, regular citizens are subject to more scrutiny when making a citizens arrest, and rightly SHOULD be. If you make a mistake, it can quickly become YOU who is facing a list of charges.

I realize the wording I used made it sound as if citizens arrests are completely illegal. They aren't. Ideally the police would prefer it if citizens let them handle it. Most of the time that it's invoked, it's used as a means for citizens present during a robbery/assault/murder to temporarily detain a perpetrator until the police arrive. Making a citizens arrest beyond a situation like that is not smart at all.
On Topic:
I'm too lazy to research legal procedures for a private citizen arrest right now, but logically thinking of course you cant throw a person in the trunk of a car. Are you nuts? as far as the weapon goes, if you have legal documentation to possess the weapon, can prove why you had it at the time of the arrest, and are in danger of your own life (zimmerman scenario), why wouldn't you be allowed to use it? the same rules apply to a peace officer. Obviously as a civilian you are going to get fucked if you randomly show up trying to arrest some fool breaking in to a home with a weapon in your hand....

Off Topic:
Haunted: I think you have an obsession with 2dum. every reply in this thread (except yours) has to do with, or in relation to the Zimmerman case.  Take your unnecessary jabs to its own thread.
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Offline fdrjk

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Re: The Zimmerman Trial... Possible Race Riots?
« Reply #58 on: July 18, 2013, 07:01:19 PM »
you know absolutely nothing about cops/ the protocol and procedures they have to do before acting on a crime.

ps, ur dumb
1 word: observe
it doesn't take 1 billion protocols and procedures just to open your eyes and take a look at whats going on

At least i took criminal law in college and read case law

how is that even relevant to what i said? just because you took a class about criminal law in school doesnt mean you know anything about police procedures, which most of them are often done just in case someone decides to try and get away or attack the cop; an example is that cops are trained to reach for their gun when people try to reach for something in their car, because they dont know if they're getting their license or trying to reach for a gun. of course that's not really related to arresting criminals, but that's just an example of tiny necessary procedures they have to follow in the case of emergencies, which are certain to happen more in some areas than others.

it has already been explained why people very rarely ever make citizens arrests. It's because most of the time theose that do, usually are held liable for their "act of goodness". As for the whole if you see something say something thing. it's a crock. it's probably better to mind your own business, unless it was a major crime that's harming someone. if not, people really should mind their own. also, another point to mention is how lazy people are.

actually, usually when there are more people on the scene of a crime, the less likely someone will help; it's not that much of a case of how lazy people are. its a social response resulted from the mentality that "someone who knows more than me will help them later" or, "stuff like this never happens, so someones bound to respond". as well as thinking about the kind of responsibility that will come to you if you decide to be a good samaritan and help someone, which some people will often opt out of when in a group of people. its called the bystander effect and its probably as basic as basic psychology gets.

that being said, if you see someone get stabbed on the street you should definitely get off your fat fucking ass and help them
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Offline haunted

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Re: The Zimmerman Trial... Possible Race Riots?
« Reply #59 on: July 18, 2013, 07:09:50 PM »
random:

Uhh, he's the one who started taking jabs at me on this thread, then it was deleted. He's the one who mentions me in every one of his event threads, private messages me on a daily basis, and mentions me in every off-topic scenario that he can. He's the one that types novels about me. He's the one with the obsession, i've just been retaliating to his bullshit for the past two days. If you think otherwise, then I'd wonder if you and him have some sort of bromance going on :raincloud:
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March 23, 2020, 01:59:50 PM
netgraph looks pretty normal from what I can tell too. I've taken a number of screenshots with it up - not sure if that's helpful or not.

Punk_FAS

March 23, 2020, 01:59:15 PM
It looks like we're having a LAN party wherever the server is located. Pings are like in the low single digits for almost everyone. Even the people who normally ping in the upper 100s are showing pings of like 25ish. This is on DM anyway.
 

|iR|Focalor

March 23, 2020, 01:57:11 PM
only DM, vanilla and railz running smooth

Punk_FAS

March 23, 2020, 01:49:52 PM
I changed it to 1 - let's hope that resolves the issue I was noticing.

Thanks for the replies.

Punk_FAS

March 23, 2020, 01:49:18 PM
m_directinput - I had that at 2, which is supposedly only necessary for very slow PCs. I was noticing that sometimes my mouse movements seem to be too fast for my mouse's sensor.

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