Author Topic: Current Politics & History Only Thread  (Read 190660 times)

Offline metaL

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1650 on: June 30, 2020, 05:18:32 AM »
The AP should never be trusted, they'd have a few entries on my fake news thread if I cared to search back. But neither should Jack Posobeic or any other single person.

I have NOT researched this extensively, but my first inclination was that it seems hard to believe Trump didn't know about this, or that something of this nature was about to happen. When he claims he hasn't been briefed, it could be a deceptive half truths. Like:

"I was told it could happen, but no one briefed me when it happened", or

"they only told me there was smoke, I had no idea there was fire"

Or he could be telling the truth. I don't know yet. I do share Posobeic's suspicions though. Nearly everything happens for a reason (politically).
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Offline haunted

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1651 on: June 30, 2020, 05:43:58 AM »
The AP is certainly not immune to fake news, although they are definitely better comparatively. That probably makes there false narratives more memorable, but I do recall them saying the Parkland school shooter was trained by white nationalists. There were plenty of holes in that narrative.
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Offline quadz

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1652 on: June 30, 2020, 12:07:54 PM »
The negative effects of it being true does not mean it's a designed/manufactured political story (that's addressing the second(?) part of the Tweet).
[...]
I'd still love to know what opinions you guys would have (humor me and speculate a bit) if this was true.

But if what is true, precisely?

True that we have reason to suspect Russia is attempting to undermine our efforts in Afghanistan by funding the Taliban?

That wouldn't strike me as particularly straining credulity: it doesn't seem that hard to believe.

But what does that translate to in terms of statecraft?

Quote
"Mr. President, we increasingly suspect Russia is secretly funding Taliban operations against us."

"Can we prove it?"

"Not yet..."

"Well, keep digging. And get one of our diplomats on a back-channel with one of their diplomats, and strongly suggest they knock it the fuck off. Oh – by the way, what's the CIA been up to lately?"

I mean, is that how these things are handled? I don't know.

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Offline Punk_FAS

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1653 on: June 30, 2020, 12:54:25 PM »
True that Trump and his administration knew that Russia made specific offers, and specific payments, to Taliban fighters for specifically targeting and killing American soldiers (and were successful in doing so), and that didn't alter their treatment of Russia in the slightest.
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Offline metaL

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1654 on: June 30, 2020, 01:06:22 PM »
Guys, subscribe to WeAreChange. Ive been subbed for 5+ years and haven't seen a video by them in years. They call out everyone including Trump. One of the first to be censored before censorship went crazy.
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Offline quadz

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1655 on: June 30, 2020, 02:21:42 PM »
True that Trump and his administration knew that Russia made specific offers, and specific payments, to Taliban fighters for specifically targeting and killing American soldiers (and were successful in doing so), and that didn't alter their treatment of Russia in the slightest.

I thought it was 'suspected' rather than 'knew'?

And on what basis have we determined our political calculus with Russia was unaffected?

I'm doing my best to flip between Trump and Obama as a thought experiment (i.e. how would we have expected Obama to handle receiving similar intel about Russia) and frankly I have no idea what constitutes a "smart" response from our government. But I'll bet it includes a lot of factors, like how sure we are about the intel, and whether we can prove it, etc.

OR MAYBE IT'S ALL ABOUT THE PEE-PEE TAPE. PUTIN IS BLACKMAILING DRUMPF!

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Offline |iR|Focalor

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1656 on: June 30, 2020, 02:45:21 PM »
https://apnews.com/425e43fa0ffdd6e126c5171653ec47d1?fbclid=IwAR0SqFA9WgFIHtSxGp18BJKK9yGieGC8cy8pZIKnrDZfVNvxAdRk0UyRx3Q

From that page:

Quote
β€œHe can disown everything if nobody ever told him about it,” Bolton said.

 :erhmmm:

Jackass statement of the year.

The first thought this asshole has is, "The Russians supposedly pay jihadis to kill Americans... mkay, how can we assign guilt for this to Trump?"

It's not so surprising though. Anyone who thinks the Cold War definitively ended isn't paying attention. What's changed? The Russians are still there, they still have nuclear weapons, procedures are still in place for mutually assured destruction if one side takes a shot with a nuke.

Thinking back to Ukraine, Crimea and the Ukrainian Revolution of 2014... the US clearly supported and funded independence from Russia. And it's probably important to remember that Ukraine is an important oil reserve in that region.

It doesn't shock me at all that Russia would fund the Taliban. And it's also important to note that the Taliban's role in things over there has evolved to a degree. The Taliban themselves are at odds with other groups that are fighting against the US as well. Explaining who is who is not as simple as labeling everything either Coke or Pepsi. But as always, Russia and the US are going to continue to throw obstacles in the paths of each others global objectives so long as it can't be seen as a direct opposition. And funding the Taliban might be seen as direct opposition, but I suspect it's really not. I don't think they'd do it without having done it in a way where they can somehow call it humanitarian aide that was hijacked and used for other purposes.

But if they have solid proof that Russia has been playing "jihad for hire", then I would think more outrage should be tossed towards Russia than President Trump. I don't understand why the media seems to be lashing Trump to the stake about this shit while saying little to nothing critical about Russia.
 :WTF:
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Offline haunted

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1657 on: June 30, 2020, 04:13:57 PM »
America has changed. We would've been outraged at Russia for something like that years ago when we were actually proud to be Africans and not ashamed of it. Now, the only reason why It's news is because it can be utilized to bash trump. It's not just losing our sense of patriotism either. We would've DEMANDED to know the truth of Jeffrey Epstein in the 80's and even 90's. How could such corruption even happen to allow someone to do what he did? We would've demanded answers, and to root out EVERYONE involved.  Nah, we just made memes.
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Offline metaL

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1658 on: June 30, 2020, 04:27:42 PM »
years ago when we were actually proud to be Africans


https://youtu.be/wzlsOukPW80

Mike Perry is still proud to be African.
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Offline haunted

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1659 on: June 30, 2020, 04:34:56 PM »
Haha! Autocorrect. I think I'll leave it  :lolsign:
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Offline quadz

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1660 on: June 30, 2020, 08:00:26 PM »
America has changed. We would've been outraged at Russia for something like that years ago when we were actually proud to be Africans[sic] and not ashamed of it. Now, the only reason why It's news is because it can be utilized to bash trump.

Got me thinking about 2006, when Putin's FSB agents traveled to London on 3 separate occasions carrying radioactive polonium (once with a leaky container!) finally succeeding in poisoning Alexander Litvinenko on their third attempt:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko#Polonium_trails

Granted, Litvinenko wasn't a UK citizen, but he was living under political asylum protection there.

By the conclusion of the investigation, the UK and Interpol were able to pin down the specific Russian agents who carried out the deed.

And even then, the response from Russia is like, well they were just "rogue agents" trying to make Putin look bad (etc.)

Contrastingly, the intel we have about this Taliban situation is far less definitive (as I understand it.) So clearly Russia can simply deny their involvement.

So I still wonder what sort of response from the Trump administration people think would have been smartest, to this current suspected Russia/Taliban connection.

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Offline quadz

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Offline metaL

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1662 on: July 01, 2020, 07:33:29 AM »
https://nypost.com/2020/06/30/dnc-deletes-tweet-accusing-trump-of-glorifying-white-supremacy/

OVER A FUCKING 4TH OF JULY CELEBRATION AT MT. RUSHMORE.

How more unamerican can you get???

WE ENDED SLAVERY YOU PIECES OF SHIT!

Fucking LEAVE. Just get out. I would never live in a country I hated this much.
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Offline metaL

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1663 on: July 01, 2020, 07:49:46 AM »

https://youtu.be/zgH13rOlWeQ

Stefan Molyneux deemed white supremacist (by some outlets) and banned from YouTube.

Unreal.
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Offline Sgt. Dick

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1664 on: July 01, 2020, 08:32:21 AM »

https://twitter.com/SoSimpozee/status/1278096195802497025


I was going to say the same thing. 
When Trump makes threats or takes action, he is a "Loose Cannon", "Dangerous", "Going to start WWIII"
If he does not take immediate action on something that the facts are still coming out about "He is Weak", "He is a Puppet", "They have dirt on him"

The answers to these actions are so easy to see, they are all used for political gain, not because the people behind the stories care "That Much".
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