Author Topic: Current Politics & History Only Thread  (Read 117275 times)

Offline Whirlingdervish

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #360 on: February 06, 2017, 05:23:58 PM »
My problem with this sort of order has nothing to do with which religion is targeted by it.

I have serious issues with being sold a crock of shit and being told it's a bar of gold, when the seller is our government who I pay my taxes to support.

The entire thrust of the administrations reasoning for this executive action is the mythological ease with which scary brown people can come here unvetted to terrorize us, and that they could supposedly do it right now in an instant. (which pretty much everyone else agrees is untrue)

The border wall starts to look like an effective idea when compared to this completely stupid executive action on immigration: At the very least it has the potential to keep unvetted people out of the country. Saying over and over that there is no checking on asylum seekers and immigrants and refugees, does not change the fact that it actually does exist and it's fairly strict and it involves multiple departments of our national security apparatus and it takes more than a year.

The whole "we have to do it or they'll rush in before we slam the door" line of reasoning is based on this bullshit that the facts easily disprove.

We don't need a government "fixing" a nonexistent problem, when the vast majority of people who were killed here by 'terrorists' were killed by people who did not come from any of the targeted countries, and who were commonly born here or legally residing here with no previous signs of danger to us.

Their nonsensical fixing of nonexistent problems as an apparent mechanism for pushing toward the erosion of the rights of people who are here legally, is my major problem with this.

If they can just say "national security" and make some shit up, and then do whatever they please regardless of legality, morality or adherence to the constitution, then I don't expect well meaning muslims who are attempting to emigrate from these handful of nations to be the last people harmed by this administration.

These are the sort of actions that show you how they will probably govern: so far it looks like they will blow smoke up our asses, loudly make claims about fake dangers to drum up support for their actions, and damage our standing in the world and our personal rights for other reasons than the ones they are claiming.


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Offline |iR|Focalor

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #361 on: February 07, 2017, 05:25:44 AM »
Or maybe you're a touchy feely PC warrior blowing shit out of proportion. Banning travel from certain hostile countries doesn't effect the civil rights of anyone here. And anyone from those countries are not guaranteed any "rights" as they are not qualifying citizens. Again I say: fuck em. People wanna equate it to racist discrimination when it's more along the lines of rational self interest. There's a big difference between saying "Go back to Africa." and "You should have remained in Mexico all along." and anyone who can't see the difference doesn't want to because they're preoccupied by "feelings".
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Offline Whirlingdervish

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #362 on: February 07, 2017, 08:45:34 AM »
Where I live used to be Mexico until relatively not that long ago. Most of the people who immigrated here illegally this year would not have been doing so illegally 200 years ago. (the USA was already a thing at this point)

Where you live, not even 200 years ago, we deported the Native Americans who had lived there for a thousand years, into territories west of the Mississippi, and destroyed their culture intentionally for reasons including religion.

There's nothing PC about understanding history as a series of changes over time, and knowing that what we think of as "Our America" or "Here" today, was someone else's America yesterday and will probably be someone else's America tomorrow.

Banning travel from those countries actually has already affected the civil rights of people who live here, but were traveling at the time to those places and were rendered unable to return or detained at an airport for no reason.

Banning travel from those countries for the express purpose of stopping Muslim immigration doesn't bother YOU, because you aren't a Muslim. Plenty of other AMERICANS are, and plenty of them have family that doesn't live here, just like plenty of anglo-saxon americans have relatives that do not live here but instead live in parts of Europe.

Being unable to visit your family, due to the religion of a majority of people in the country where they live (that they may not even follow) would seem like a bit of an imposition on someone's rights who is HERE.

If we were talking about rational self interest, maybe that list should include nations that are chock full of actual terrorists who hate us, and not just ones that are full of Muslims who don't do business with us.


Who let the Afghan Taliban run back and forth across their border with impunity to evade us, provided training and shelter for Al Queda, and who was hiding Osama Fucking bin Laden for years until we found out and killed him? Pakistan. NOT ON LIST.

Where did the 9/11 Hijackers primarily come from? Saudi Arabia. NOT ON LIST.

Where did millions of undocumented Syrians go while their country was in the grips of a civil war and had exactly fuckall for border controls and was being overrun by ISIS? Turkey. NOT ON LIST.


If being rational had a thing to do with this ban, or protecting us from imported terrorists was the goal, then they done fucked up.

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Offline haunted

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #363 on: February 07, 2017, 09:04:29 AM »

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xEMHKO5MC6c

Here's a group of western/America Muslims, your average moderate Sunni.

European countries have already been invaded via their peaceful jihad(immigration then having 10 kids per family) and now their elected officials are slowly becoming more and more Muslim. I'm not sorry for not wanting their caveman  backwards as fuck regressive bullshit in our country. They can keep it over there. It does nothing good for us.

I know many countries are left out. But an temporary immigration ban doesn't bother me in the least. Fuck 'em. They don't give a shit about you, so you shouldn't about them, even if someone as stupid as trump is the driving force. I know the left is foaming at the mouth for chances to badmouth him and they come a lot. My opinion still stands.
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Offline Whirlingdervish

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #364 on: February 07, 2017, 10:33:10 AM »
Would it bother you if that temporary ban on immigration was on people from Ireland?

They have a bunch of radical catholic terrorists living there, and catholicism isn't known for being a nonviolent religion.


The real point is not who they are banning, it's that if you give them the power to impose blanket bans on people for reasons other than their personal activities being dangerous or illegal, then you open the door to banning people from entering our country for any reason.
You allow them to start imposing other things upon people like limiting their freedom of movement in general because of a belief they hold or a place they didn't choose to be born. (just like the native americans I referenced who were systematically rounded up and destroyed for not being christian white men, even though they were born here)

The reasons don't have to be religion or origin or race.. They could easily become things like having your own opinion that doesn't agree with those of the "leaders" if you throw out the requirements that those leaders follow the law and the intent of our constitution, or respect the lives and rights of all people and not just US citizens.

That thing you just did by expressing a diverging opinion? By US law, that is just as illegal and dangerous as being a muslim or being born in Syria, by which I mean, it's not at all.


You cannot forget that this is an administration led by a man who has spent the last week vehemently telling us via twitter that if polls and reported facts don't agree with his world view, they are fake news and damaging lies.

I don't trust him or any of the barely competent people he has "hired" to be the ones to decide what is acceptable conduct in this country. We have a constitution and laws for that, and the executive branch is not tasked with making or changing those.

The court that is in charge of determining what those laws mean, including the first amendment, has plenty of precedent that would imply that the state cannot infringe upon the rights of people (not limited to citizens) who practice a specific religion. Even if we were to go by the currently less popular compelling interest doctrine, the state must show a strong reason for this specific infringement that benefits the public and so far the "state" in the form of Donal Trump has declined to display this compelling interest of the people/state. All they've done is trot out the brown people boogeyman without evidence that these actions would benefit us or even protect us from said boogeyman.

In any other context I might not expect the worst from our government, but with a House of Reps that's controlled by republicans who show exactly no ability or desire to reign in Trump and the people he placed in positions of power, and vacancies on the supreme court that could shift the balance of that branch of government for the rest of our lives, it would be stupid not to guard against "the worst".

« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 10:53:25 AM by Whirlingdervish »
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Offline |iR|Focalor

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #365 on: February 08, 2017, 04:43:07 PM »
They've gotten to you.

Farewell, Dervish. We hardly knew ye. :beer:
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Offline quadz

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #366 on: February 26, 2017, 04:15:47 PM »


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Offline Barton

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Offline jägermonsta

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #368 on: March 06, 2017, 11:33:41 AM »
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always lean towards war

Offline |iR|Focalor

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #369 on: March 06, 2017, 06:05:35 PM »
Hehe. We figured you for dead. Welcome back.
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Offline jägermonsta

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #370 on: March 07, 2017, 07:40:08 AM »
Ohhh I'm still alive. Heard a new Quake was coming out this year which reminded me of tastyspleen. Glad to see it still exists! Might just have to get ol' Q2 running again.  :beer:

 
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always lean towards war

Offline ImperiusDamian

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #371 on: March 09, 2017, 06:38:03 PM »
Ohhh I'm still alive. Heard a new Quake was coming out this year which reminded me of tastyspleen. Glad to see it still exists! Might just have to get ol' Q2 running again.  :beer:

I never stopped running it. Except during Windows reinstalls due to hard drive failures.

(Oh and to keep this thread on topic, FUCK ALL POLITICIANS, THEY CAN SUCK MY FAT HAIRY ASS CRACK.)

John Carmack for President!
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Offline quadz

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #372 on: March 13, 2017, 10:49:59 AM »


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Offline |iR|Focalor

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #373 on: March 13, 2017, 07:25:03 PM »
If we're talking about Russia from after the revolution until the fall of the USSR, then I don't think it entirely qualifies as a true communist state. A dictatorship with a few communist leanings, sure. I never paid particularly close attention in history class when it came to Russia and communism, but from what little I didn't sleep through or ignore while doodling, communism by the definition that was given seemed far more hippie-ish and conscientious than Stalin ever would've been.
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Offline quadz

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #374 on: March 14, 2017, 01:02:44 PM »
from what little I didn't sleep through or ignore while doodling, communism by the definition that was given seemed far more hippie-ish and conscientious than Stalin ever would've been.

The hippie types seem to miss out on the fine print; that being: due to the level of authoritarian control required over the lives of every individual in order to enforce its ideology, Communism is unavoidably a totalitarian system.

Tyrannical dictatorships, class warfare, bloody purges, famine—all seem to be natural consequences of a system which is fundamentally opposed to economic freedom and individual liberty.

This is how it's "supposed" to work:



Yeah, Workers' Freedom! Down with the bourgeoisie! Anyone who started their own company and now has employees is merely exploiting the working class! Their assets need to be confiscated and put under government control. The regime will enforce equality of outcome by eliminating freedom of opportunity! Yay!



They never seem to explain the missing step between totalitarian state and worker's paradise.  ;)


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Yeah, prophylactics are always an option, specially when you are doing it with something you think it has something "stormy" inside...
Stay safe folks...
 

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Well, obviously one has to use protection when fucking any kind of tropical weather system.
 

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If a hurricane blows your house down, call STD Contractors.

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You should use a condom first...
If it has hepatitis or gonorrhea or some kind of tropical STD then you may want to be safe first...
 

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