Author Topic: Current Politics & History Only Thread  (Read 175688 times)

Offline haunted

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1065 on: March 08, 2020, 12:48:31 PM »
This is what I meant:

As far as public figures are concerned trump is that guy who won't hesitate to let everyone know if he thinks something is fake, phony, a hoax, etc. I was saying that your guidelines for "acknowledging something's existence"(synonymous to "real", the opposite of fake) is very strict considering it's trump. It was a nice way of saying that you hate the guy's guts and you think his supporters are all morons, and your reasoning reflects that.
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Offline Punk_FAS

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1066 on: March 08, 2020, 03:55:00 PM »
Trump's messaging is often not clear (particularly at his rallies or when he goes off script). In those situations, he frequently breaks focus on the topic at hand, branching off to talk about something else he was just reminded of, only to come back to what he was talking about a moment or two later. You can't blame people for misunderstanding what he's trying to say when's he's so incoherent.

Example of what I'm talking about attached here.
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Offline haunted

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1067 on: March 08, 2020, 04:56:02 PM »
Is there anything else you'd like to discuss other than putting yourself into the shoes of feeble-minded trump supporters then imaginatively speculating how they misinterpret his informal trumpspeak?

Offline quadz

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1068 on: March 08, 2020, 05:04:16 PM »
Trump's messaging is often not clear (particularly at his rallies or when he goes off script). In those situations, he frequently breaks focus on the topic at hand, branching off to talk about something else he was just reminded of, only to come back to what he was talking about a moment or two later. You can't blame people for misunderstanding what he's trying to say when's he's so incoherent.

Hang on. You've just been presented with evidence of Trump going on and on, unambiguously, about coronavirus "bleeding its way into various countries around the world" - and his claims that early efforts at quarantine and travel restrictions had limited the spread here; and how he'd requested billions of dollars to combat further spread of the infection and created a task force to handle it. Occurring in the very same rally where disingenuous hacks tried to spin "it's their new hoax" as if Trump were calling the virus itself a hoax.

Who Are The People Who Are Misunderstanding here?

Reminded of: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds
Quote
Even after the evidence “for their beliefs has been totally refuted, people fail to make appropriate revisions in those beliefs,” the researchers noted.






Example of what I'm talking about attached here.

Yeah. Typical waffle when Trump does't have the details. For me it boils down to Trump suggesting he could do a better deal with Iran than prior presidents.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 05:23:01 PM by quadz »
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Offline Punk_FAS

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1069 on: March 08, 2020, 05:11:56 PM »
Typical waffle when Trump does't have the details.

A polite way of saying he doesn't know what he's talking about, but speaks about the topic anyway.

For me it boils down to Trump suggesting he could do a better deal with Iran than prior presidents.

It'd be great if we didn't have to take our best guess at what he's trying to say, but he'd have to communicate differently for that to be a reality.

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Offline quadz

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1070 on: March 08, 2020, 05:41:52 PM »
I think haunted nailed it above, "Is there anything else you'd like to discuss other than putting yourself into the shoes of feeble-minded trump supporters then imaginatively speculating how they misinterpret his informal trumpspeak?"


I'd begun a nuanced reply to the rest of your post. But it's time to stop and notice whether you acknowledge the "journalistic" claims that Trump called the coronavirus a "hoax" are trivially proven false by the totality of his speech at that campaign event.

What say you?

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Offline Punk_FAS

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1071 on: March 08, 2020, 05:46:32 PM »
I think it's highly likely that a number of outlets understood what Trump meant, but took advantage of the appearance of him suggesting the virus itself was a hoax (or at least focusing on the word "hoax" and implying things he didn't imply). That's dishonest journalism and I don't support such things. Thanks for the supporting evidence from other points in that rally speech where he's clearly acknowledging his administration's substantial efforts to confront the virus.
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Offline |iR|Focalor

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1072 on: March 08, 2020, 06:11:13 PM »
You'd have to have a degree in Journalism to pretend to not understand what he's talking about.

 :badgrin: :thumbsup:

Yeah, I was hoping to double major in college in Journalism and English. And then I realized how much I would've hated myself for becoming a journalist in THAT system. And I never did decide what I would pivot to, eventually dropped out, and I'm disappointed I didn't get SOME KIND of degree, but glad I didn't spend all the time it would've taken to get THAT one. Would've been a waste.

And speaking of pretending to not hear things...

I see people (friends of my mother), and friends of friends on Facebook, that seem to show a similar blind devotion to Trump.

And yet you don't mention seeing any blind devotion to democrat personalities. Do you ever see that as well, or does it ONLY exist with Republicans?

If you can't say "Yes, I see blind devotion to democrats as well, and it's a problem of equal importance." , then... why not?

If you can't see blind devotion to democrats, perhaps you are blindly devoted to them. I'm not saying you are, I'm not calling people dirty names, I'm just asking you to consider that possibility and ruminate upon it. Because I would assert that "partisan" in total favor of either party should be considered a dirty word and a label no one should aspire to anymore. Neither side seems to genuinely give a shit about anyone but themselves anymore, so it's our job to use what tools we have to do the best job of taking care of ourselves FOR ourselves. And sometimes we're gonna have to vote for shitheads to get that done, especially when ALL the choices are shitheads.
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Offline quadz

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1073 on: March 08, 2020, 06:39:58 PM »
I think it's highly likely that a number of outlets understood what Trump meant, but took advantage of the appearance of him suggesting the virus itself was a hoax (or at least focusing on the word "hoax" and implying things he didn't imply). That's dishonest journalism and I don't support such things. Thanks for the supporting evidence from other points in that rally speech where he's clearly acknowledging his administration's substantial efforts to confront the virus.

OK, it's great to have some mutually-agreed-upon anchor point that hopefully describes reality. :beer:

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Offline Punk_FAS

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1074 on: March 08, 2020, 06:42:35 PM »
Disclaimer: I'm sharing something I didn't read (beyond the headline):

"Donald Trump Shook Hands with CPAC Chairman Exposed to Attendee Infected with Coronavirus"

https://people.com/politics/donald-trump-shook-hands-cpacp-chairman-exposed-coronavirus/

Edit: I've since read the article.
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Offline Punk_FAS

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1075 on: March 08, 2020, 07:41:50 PM »
If you can't see blind devotion to democrats, perhaps you are blindly devoted to them. I'm not saying you are, I'm not calling people dirty names, I'm just asking you to consider that possibility and ruminate upon it. Because I would assert that "partisan" in total favor of either party should be considered a dirty word and a label no one should aspire to anymore.

I imagine some people are blindly devoted to Bernie to a similar level as some are to Trump. I don't know any of them personally, though, unlike Trump supporters.

Neither side seems to genuinely give a shit about anyone but themselves anymore, so it's our job to use what tools we have to do the best job of taking care of ourselves FOR ourselves. And sometimes we're gonna have to vote for shitheads to get that done, especially when ALL the choices are shitheads.

I totally disagree here. I truly believe that Bernie in particular, AOC, and many in that circle truly do care for the average American citizen (which is what I consider all of us here). The major policies they promote would help each of us, in some way or another (either directly or indirectly), and some of us in very big ways.

What is it about Bernie's vision for the country that leads you to believe that he doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself? I mean, that honestly comes across as borderline crazy talk to me. Help me understand why you think Bernie doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself - what proposed policies of his tells you that?

Btw, Focalor, are you a religious person? I kind of assumed you were an atheist, or not religious anyway. What are you thoughts about how much Trump tries to appease evangelicals? You're pro-choice too, right? Does that not concern you that that right could be taken away, or at least seriously altered? Does it bother you that evangelicals are the primary group that Trump is trying to appease in that regard?
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Offline ImperiusDamian

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1076 on: March 08, 2020, 08:15:05 PM »
Btw, Focalor, are you a religious person? I kind of assumed you were an atheist, or not religious anyway. What are you thoughts about how much Trump tries to appease evangelicals? You're pro-choice too, right? Does that not concern you that that right could be taken away, or at least seriously altered? Does it bother you that evangelicals are the primary group that Trump is trying to appease in that regard?

Not to mention the fact that Mike Pence is a known Dominionist, who would happily take away the rights and freedoms of non-Christians (and Catholics) if he had the opportunity to do so.
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Offline Punk_FAS

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1077 on: March 08, 2020, 08:48:26 PM »
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Offline Punk_FAS

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1078 on: March 08, 2020, 09:05:39 PM »
Great post I found on reddit concerning continued Russian attempts (and successes) at dividing us politically and pitting us against one another:


https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/ffkoqh/twitter_puts_manipulated_tag_on_faked_biden_video/fjz4im7/
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Offline |iR|Focalor

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1079 on: March 08, 2020, 09:33:25 PM »
Not to mention the fact that Mike Pence is a known Dominionist, who would happily take away the rights and freedoms of non-Christians (and Catholics) if he had the opportunity to do so.

 :eyecrazy:

Well if you can find one quote of him saying that he wishes he could "take away the rights and freedoms of non-Christians", I'll help you... not like him, or whatever. But unfortunately for ANYONE who would assert such a ridiculous thing, we have a Constitution in this country which separates church and state, probably because the authors of it were fully cognizant of the political meddling that the papacy and other religious bodies attempt to engage in.

Mike Pence is fucking nobody to me. As VP, he largely sits on his ass doing nothing and gets paid for it.

If you can't see blind devotion to democrats, perhaps you are blindly devoted to them. I'm not saying you are, I'm not calling people dirty names, I'm just asking you to consider that possibility and ruminate upon it. Because I would assert that "partisan" in total favor of either party should be considered a dirty word and a label no one should aspire to anymore.

I imagine some people are blindly devoted to Bernie to a similar level as some are to Trump. I don't know any of them personally, though, unlike Trump supporters.

You imagine it? Kinda sounds to me like you don't actually believe in it and you're just saying that to avoid admitting that you're as loyal to the democratic party as those people are loyal to the Republican party. Because I've yet to hear you say anything critical of them.

...AOC,...

 ::)
Don't care about her. Won't talk about her. She gets enough press on her own being a loudmouthed moron, and she doesn't deserve the amount of consideration and press she receives. But I'm sure I'll mention some policies she supports soon enough in this post.

What is it about Bernie's vision for the country that leads you to believe that he doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself? I mean, that honestly comes across as borderline crazy talk to me. Help me understand why you think Bernie doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself - what proposed policies of his tells you that?

In the last televised debate, he ended by haranguing the audience with a speech about "I'm gonna legalize marijuana in all 50 states. I'm gonna expunge the records of those arrested for drug offenses." That tells me he doesn't give a fuck about the country, only about saying what he thinks will get him elected. There are MANY MORE things to consider before doing that.

In the last televised debate, he loudly supported the FUCKING RETARDED idea to form a committee to formally investigate or initiate the process of slavery reparations. I'm sorry that shitty things happened to your great grandfathers, black people. But it wasn't me that fucking did it. Shitty things happened my ancestors too. You don't see me asking for free shit over it. Again, he doesn't agree with it because he thinks it's what's best for everyone (because it ISN'T), he's only saying it to get favor from the idiots on social media.

Taxing the shit out of the rich at unreasonable rates. Again, it's short-sighted and unrealistic. But he doesn't consider that. Just say what the drooling idiots on social media wanna hear and they'll throw their vote at you.

Btw, Focalor, are you a religious person? I kind of assumed you were an atheist, or not religious anyway. What are you thoughts about how much Trump tries to appease evangelicals? You're pro-choice too, right? Does that not concern you that that right could be taken away, or at least seriously altered? Does it bother you that evangelicals are the primary group that Trump is trying to appease in that regard?

I shun the term atheist for myself, mostly because people on the internet who often call themselves atheists engage in too much pointless arguing, fighting, and name calling over a topic where neither person is going to change their position. It's fucking stupid, and I don't want to be associated with it. I'm simply not religious, and I don't need a name for something so irrelevant. I have friends who are Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, white supremacist, neo-pagan, kemetist, Satanist. All of them are silly to me, but it ain't MY belief, it has nothing to do with me, so who cares. My checklist for people is pretty simple: Is he an asshole? If yes... kick him in the balls and leave. If no, hang out for a while, see what happens.

What is this talk of "evangelicals"? Is that a bad word or something? What does it even mean? Christians? If so, I don't view "Christians" as my mortal enemy. Back when I did call myself a Satanist, such consideration for Christians was referred to within Satanic philosophy as "first phase Satanism", where a person is largely just young and ignorant and feels like they've been innately victimized by the oppression of Christian culture. And eventually, one learns that the victimization in reality is an illusion and you grow beyond those feelings. You don't HAVE to subject yourself to their customs and culture, so why let it's mere existence invade your life and your thoughts?

To me, Satanism eventually became fucking stupid and I outgrew the need for it. Others don't see it as stupid. Fine for them, because it has nothing to do with me. In my opinion, there's good to be found in most any religion,... and bad too.

Abortion is a non-issue at the federal level. It's a state thing. So who gives a fuck what ANY of them say about it, they don't get to decide. When they say anything about it, it's because, like Quadz said, the people are stupid and latch on to those simplified things and vote based on it.

MY state governor is being a fucking dick and re-tightening the restrictions on it. And it's precisely why I PROBABLY won't vote for that cocksucker asshole next time... UNLESS... that fat gap-toothed loud-mouthed, chocolate curly sue looking motherfucking horse faced bitch Stacy Abrams runs again. In that case... he automatically gets my vote AGAIN. Which is a vote I DON'T WANT to give him... just like the vote I gave Donald Trump... and will likely give him again in November. ::)
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    Flawless Logic
    Well-Reasoned Argument and/or Conclusion
    Demonstrates Exceptional Knowlege of the Game
    Appears Not to Comprehend Game Fundamentals
    Frag of the Week
    Frag Hall of Fame
    Jump of the Week
    Jump Hall of Fame
    Best Solution
    Wins The Internet
    Whoosh! You done missed the joke thar Cletus!
    Obvious Troll Is Obvious
    DO YOU EVEN LIFT?
    DEMO OR STFU
    Offtopic
    Flamebait
    Redundant
    Factually Challenged
    Preposterously Irrational Arguments
    Blindingly Obvious Logical Fallacies
    Absurd Misconstrual of Scientific Principles or Evidence
    Amazing Conspiracy Theory Bro
    Racist Ignoramus

 

El Box de Shoutamente

Last 10 Shouts:

 

quadz

May 27, 2020, 01:20:31 PM
(launch scrubbed due to weather)

-Unh0ly-

May 22, 2020, 01:44:29 AM
NEW WEBSITE
http://www.unholyq2.com
NEW WEBSITE
 

Admin

May 21, 2020, 02:46:32 PM
(an OS upgrade last weekend broke the shoutbox - working again now)

Punk_FAS

May 14, 2020, 12:10:28 PM
 

Prophet

May 03, 2020, 11:35:42 AM
Moo moo? MooOooooo
 

Waffle Whiffer

May 03, 2020, 08:19:10 AM
Moo
 

Reefer

April 27, 2020, 05:15:19 PM
2dum thank you — I will be keeping your awesome RA2 map guide handy! Not to infringe your copyright, but I am 2dum to find the 2nd church, even with what is probably a screenshot of it. TY again will keep combing!
 

2d

April 25, 2020, 03:46:23 PM
Reefer: http://forum.tastyspleen.net/quake/index.php?topic=21180.0

7th post on page 1, i made an ra2 map list a while ago, should have all maps ;)
 

|iR|Focalor

April 20, 2020, 02:14:45 AM


Why yes, it is indeed the greatest movie ever.

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