Author Topic: Current Politics & History Only Thread  (Read 174590 times)

Offline haunted

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1050 on: March 07, 2020, 03:01:02 PM »
the DNC for changing the rules again to exclude Tulsi from the next debate.  :ohlord:

She got the couple delegates she needed to meet the criteria for the previous debate, then like always the DNC changed the rules specifically just to exclude her. I've heard people mistakenly say "There are no rules for the DNC" as criticism but really it's "The rule is, we're allowed to change the rules whenever we want, and frequently"

Every democrat should be livid with this, but the only attention it'll get will be from Elizabeth Warren's crowd making it about sexism, but that IS attention nonetheless. But really it ain't sexism. They don't want her in there because she's not their pawn.
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Offline haunted

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1051 on: March 07, 2020, 03:40:37 PM »
.
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Offline |iR|Focalor

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1052 on: March 07, 2020, 03:59:16 PM »
Look at the confirmation bias, you guys. This confirms MY bias.

Why must we have to attribute the stupid things that people say to some evil pretense? Why can't people just be plain old stupid? She's a dummy. The world is full of them. And sometimes they vote, unfortunately.

They go down the line, they talk to a few people, and the ones that fit the bill for who they are looking for, that's who they show. They have an angle they want to highlight, and they find the idiot who will shine the brightest.

A friend of my dads works at a vintage guitar shop, and he was on the news the other week talking to them about a recent robbery. I stopped in there last weekend, and he recounted to me that the news reporter promised he wouldn't use any parts of the interview he told him not to. Well... they used ONLY the parts he told them NOT to. How the store was close to bankruptcy, etc. And all because it furthers their narrative that the economy is shit and TRUMP DID IT!!! Meanwhile, everyone knows that they can walk in there and wave a little money around and talk them way down on the prices of their vintage guitars because they HAVE to make sales to try to stay open.

When they're interviewing witnesses to a robbery or a car crash... maybe less of an agenda there. But if they're interviewing people at a political rally... oh cracka please, you KNOW they're gonna have their own agenda front and center in that piece.

I see people (friends of my mother), and friends of friends on Facebook, that seem to show a similar blind devotion to Trump.

And yet you don't mention seeing any blind devotion to democrat personalities. Do you ever see that as well, or does it ONLY exist with Republicans?

If you can't say "Yes, I see blind devotion to democrats as well, and it's a problem of equal importance." , then... why not?
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Offline quadz

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1053 on: March 07, 2020, 04:46:10 PM »
She claims she'd only trust news about coronavirus deaths if it came directly from Trump or other Republicans.
She didn't expressly say that - she said she wouldn't trust anything that came from a Democrat.

Thanks. Correction accepted. Here's the transcript:

Reporter: So you don't believe coronavirus exists?
Interviewee: I don't.
Reporter: So the two people who have been reported to have died from it in Washington state: You don't trust that that's true?
Interviewee: I don't trust anything the Democrats do.
Reporter: So that was put out by the governor of that state. It's been put out by bi-partisan lawmakers.
Interviewee: Were they Democrats?
Reporter: Republicans and Democrats, agreeing that there are people who have contracted the virus, two of whom have died so far.
Interviewee: Yeah, I mean I just don't believe it.


I think it's linked to Trump's cavalier manner of speaking on important topics and how that translates to what his followers believe. We have to assume a bit here, but where do you think she might have gotten the idea that this virus was not real, or a "hoax"?

Well there's some top-tier irony here, since the false allegation that Trump pronounced the virus a "hoax" was pushed HARD by innumerable media outlets and pundits a week ago Friday.


https://twitter.com/Milbank/status/1233555987149312000

Headline after headline, verified "journalist" after "journalist" pushing the falsehood.

But yes, I guess it's a great question: Where would people have gotten the idea Trump said something he didn't say?


There are so many deceptively edited versions, it takes a little digging to find the unedited footage. Here it is:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcJRDLWhl9Q

He says "this is their new hoax" in the context of Democratic politicization of his administration's handling of the virus. It's clear he wasn't calling the virus itself a hoax, since the very next thing he does is to take credit for handling the initial 15 cases quickly, saying if he hadn't acted early we'd have had a lot more cases than that.

I'd be happy to have headlines criticizing his handling of the initial containment, etc. But I wish they would stop lying, and effectively forcing me to have to defend this clown.


Maybe they just happened to interview a person that denies all supposed illnesses that are claimed to be spreading?

Well, I mean, the guy standing directly behind the lady speaks immediately after her:

Reporter: Republicans and Democrats, agreeing that there are people who have contracted the virus, two of whom have died so far.
Lady: Yeah, I mean I just don't believe it.
Next Guy: I believe this is a valid virus that's spreading around the world, and we've got to do something to protect ourselves.

So flip a coin, I guess. We could pick Next Guy as an example of how reasonable and well-informed Trump supporters are, if we wanted to single him out instead.

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Offline Punk_FAS

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1054 on: March 07, 2020, 06:43:48 PM »
It's clear he wasn't calling the virus itself a hoax, since the very next thing he does is to take credit for handling the initial 15 cases quickly, saying if he hadn't acted early we'd have had a lot more cases than that.
I disagree; I don't think it's clear at all.

He says, "Now the Democrats are politicizing the Coronavirus, you know that, right? Coronavirus. They're politicizing it". This isn't a clear acknowledgement of its existence - it could easily be interpreted as something the Democrats are making up to attack him. He then says, "We did one of the great jobs, you see...", on what? He then says, speaking as a hypothetical reporter asking a Democratic congressman (my guess) a question - "How's President Trump doing", again, on what? With his stream-of-consciousness style of speaking, he could have easily been talking about his general peformance. He trails off so much, and has such a penchant for rambling and changing his train of thought mid-sentence that it's not clear that "we did one of the great jobs" is on tackling the actual Coronavirus threat. He then says, "We have(?) 15 people in this massive country".

Anyway, it's a lot to manually transcript, but I don't know how anyone can say it's clear what he's talking about. If any of his supporters watched that and came away with the notion that the Coronavirus was a hoax being perpetuated by "The Democrats", what are the odds they watched that clip more than once to clarify they fully understood exactly what he was saying? I had to watch it multiple times to feel like I understood what he's saying.
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Offline Sgt. Dick

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1055 on: March 07, 2020, 07:15:55 PM »
I think that it is pretty clear.   Enter topic here ___________and add "Its Trump's Fault" at the end.  :dohdohdoh:
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Offline haunted

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1056 on: March 07, 2020, 08:16:16 PM »
Your standard of what-acknowledges something's-existence is very strict considering we're referring to someone who calls anything lacking the tiniest bit of validity "fake news" on a whim.

He's been bragging about restricting travel early on every chance he can get (many democrats were against this, some even called him racist for doing so, he usually adds). That's what he meant by doing a "great job".

No one has to watch that multiple times....
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Offline Punk_FAS

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1057 on: March 07, 2020, 08:25:33 PM »
Your standard of what-acknowledges something's-existence is very strict considering we're referring to someone who calls anything lacking the tiniest bit of validity "fake news" on a whim.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Trump's declaration of "Fake News" has little to nothing to do with something's validity, from my perspective, it has way more to do with how it will affect his image.
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Offline quadz

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1058 on: March 07, 2020, 09:12:11 PM »
He says, "Now the Democrats are politicizing the Coronavirus, you know that, right? Coronavirus. They're politicizing it". This isn't a clear acknowledgement of its existence - it could easily be interpreted as something the Democrats are making up to attack him.

"politicizing" an event is in common parlance. When we talk about someone politicizing a mass shooting, that's never meant that they doubt its historicity.


He then says, "We did one of the great jobs, you see...", on what?

He then says, speaking as a hypothetical reporter asking a Democratic congressman (my guess) a question - "How's President Trump doing", again, on what?

How can you claim to be unsure whether he's still talking about coronavirus in the above statements, then suddenly realize his subsequent statement is about coronavirus as soon as he says the word "hoax"?

Can't have it both ways.


If any of his supporters watched that and came away with the notion that the Coronavirus was a hoax being perpetuated by "The Democrats", what are the odds they watched that clip more than once to clarify they fully understood exactly what he was saying? I had to watch it multiple times to feel like I understood what he's saying.

Again, the irony is: the people most likely to think Trump called the virus a hoax are those who have seen the dishonest coverage and deceptively edited video.

And notice how the deceptive edits always leave off what he says right after the "hoax" comment: "You know, we did something that's been pretty amazing. We have 15 people in this massive country, and because of the fact that we went early, we won early. We could have had a lot more than that."

You'd have to have a degree in Journalism to pretend to not understand what he's talking about.


In any case, certainly the people attending that rally would not have been confused, considering Trump mentioned taking action against the virus several times during that event!

C-SPAN has full video, with an (uncorrected auto-generated) transcript:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?469663-1/president-trump-campaign-event-north-charleston-south-carolina

Some excerpts (which I've manually corrected where possible):

AND SO FAR WE HAVE LOST NOBODY TO CORONAVIRUS IN THE UNITED STATES. NOBODY. AND IT DOESN'T MEAN WE WON'T. WE ARE TOTALLY PREPARED. IT DOES NOT MEAN WE WON'T.
[…]
WE ARE MAGNIFICENTLY ORGANIZED WITH THE BEST PROFESSIONALS IN THE WORLD ARE YOU HAVE TO BE PREPARED FOR THE WORST BUT HOPEFULLY IT WILL ALL AMOUNT TO VERY LITTLE. THAT IS WHAT I TELL YOU WHEN WE HAVE THE FLU WITH 35,000 PEOPLE AND THIS ONE IS, WE HAVE TO TAKE IT VERY SERIOUSLY. WE ARE PREPARING FOR THE WORST. MY ADMINISTRATION HAS TAKEN THE MOST AGGRESSIVE ACTION IN MODERN HISTORY TO PREVENT THE SPREAD OF THIS ILLNESS IN THE UNITED STATES. WE ARE READY. WE ARE READY. TOTALLY READY. [CHEERING] ON JANUARY 31, I ORDERED THE SUSPENSION OF FOREIGN NATIONALS WHO HAVE RECENTLY BEEN IN CHINA FROM ENTERING THE UNITED STATES. [CHEERING] AN ACTION WHICH THE DEMOCRATS LOUDLY CRITICIZED AND PROTESTED AND NOW EVERYBODY'S COMPLEMENTING ME SAYING, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU ARE 100% CORRECT. COULD'VE BEEN A WHOLE DIFFERENT STORY. I SAID, LET'S GET THIS RIGHT. A VIRUS STARTS IN CHINA, BLEEDS ITS WAY INTO VARIOUS COUNTRIES ALL AROUND THE WORLD, DOES'NT SPREAD WIDELY AT ALL IN THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE OF THE EARLY ACTIONS THAT MYSELF AND MY ADMINISTRATION TOOK AGAINST A LOT OF OTHER WISHES. AND THE DEMOCRATS SINGLE TALKING POINT, AND YOU SEE IT, IS THAT IT'S DONALD TRUMP'S FAULT, RIGHT? NOW, JUST THINGS THAT HAPPEN. THINGS HAPPEN. WHOEVER THOUGHT OF THIS. TWO WEEKS AGO WHO WOULD'VE THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE GOING ON, FOUR WEEKS AGO? BUT THINGS HAPPEN IN LIFE AND YOU HAVE TO BE PREPARED AND YOU HAVE TO BE FLEXIBLE AND HAVE TO BE ABLE TO GO OUT AND GET IT. MY GUYS, WE HAVE THE BEST PROFESSIONALS IN THE WORLD, THE BEST IN THE WORLD AND WE ARE SO READY. AT THE SAME TIME THAT I INITIATED THE FIRST FEDERALLY MANDATED QUARANTINE IN OVER 50 YEARS, WE HAD TO QUARANTINE SOME PEOPLE. THEY WERE NOT HAPPY. THEY WEREN'T HAPPY ABOUT IT. THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE NOT SO HAPPY BUT AFTER TWO WEEKS THEY GOT HAPPY. YOU KNOW WHO GOT HAPPY, THE PEOPLE AROUND THEM GOT HAPPY, THAT'S WHO GOT HAPPY. I ALSO CREATED A WHITE HOUSE VIRUS TASK FORCE. IT'S A BIG THING. I REQUESTED $2.5 BILLION TO ENSURE WE HAVE THE RESOURCES WE NEED.
[…]
ONE OF THE REASONS THE NUMBERS ARE SO GOOD. WE WILL DO EVERYTHING IN OUR POWER TO KEEP THE INFECTION AND THOSE CARRYING THE INFECTION FROM ENTERING OUR COUNTRY. WE HAVE NO CHOICE. WHETHER IT IS THE VIRUS THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT OR MANY OTHER PUBLIC HEALTH THREATS, THE DEMOCRAT POLICY OF OPEN BORDERS IS A DIRECT THREAT TO THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF ALL AMERICANS. NOW, YOU SEE IT WITH THE CORONAVIRUS. YOU SEE IT. YOU SEE IT WITH THE CORONAVIRUS. YOU SEE THAT. WHEN YOU HAVE THIS VIRUS OR ANY OTHER VIRUS OR ANY OTHER PROBLEM COMING IN, IT'S NOT THE ONLY THING THAT COMES IN THROUGH THE BORDER AND WE ARE SETTING RECORDS NOW AT THE BORDER.


Now imagine having a Journalism degree, with an ostensible responsibility to get the facts straight. And instead of that, you and all your little partisan hack cronies push out a tidal wave of fake news across the Internet and television and newspapers claiming that Trump called coronavirus a "hoax" at this rally.

I am 100% behind Trump when he calls the fake news media the enemy of the people.

I don't care whether it's fake news from the left or from the right, fuck all these lying motherfuckers.

Sheesh.
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Offline quadz

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1059 on: March 07, 2020, 10:45:24 PM »
Oof.





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Offline quadz

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1060 on: March 07, 2020, 11:18:58 PM »
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Offline Punk_FAS

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1061 on: March 08, 2020, 12:46:42 AM »
"politicizing" an event is in common parlance. When we talk about someone politicizing a mass shooting, that's never meant that they doubt its historicity.

Maybe I'm not being charitable enough with how intelligent your typical Trump supporter or rally attendee is. I see so many seemingly uneducated ones on various social networking platforms that it has me questioning their ability to understand what he's saying sometime. Again, that lady had to have gotten the idea that the Coronavirus didn't exist from somewhere, and her being at a Trump rally leads me to believe it very likely came from Trump's unclear messaging.

I don't think his messaging was very clear, but I'll agree/admit that he doesn't explicitly say that the Coronavirus itself is a hoax.
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Offline haunted

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1062 on: March 08, 2020, 05:23:01 AM »
Maybe I'm not being charitable enough with how intelligent your typical Trump supporter or rally attendee is.

Maybe? Definitely, dude. When you say 'from my perspective' and disagree like it's tomatoe/tomato or something it's leaving me scratching my head. This back and forth that we're having isn't based on beliefs or difference of opinion. It's what someone said, and you are extremely twisting things to meet your own narrative. When there are ACTUAL differences of opinions on here we can all agree to disagree, but that's NOT what's happening here.

For example:

I don't think his messaging was very clear, but I'll agree/admit that he doesn't explicitly say that the Coronavirus itself is a hoax.

Agreeing that he didn't explicitly say that the coronavirus is a hoax isn't an agree/disagree thing. It's not up in the air. He didn't.

Your standard of what-acknowledges something's-existence is very strict considering we're referring to someone who calls anything lacking the tiniest bit of validity "fake news" on a whim.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Trump's declaration of "Fake News" has little to nothing to do with something's validity, from my perspective, it has way more to do with how it will affect his image.

Really? You're saying you're not sure you understand what I'm saying here? I read this last night, and decided to just go to bed from how silly this reply was. This thread is enjoyable to me and the more input the better, but I'm not going to play some game of who can twist something to fit their own narrative as much as possible.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 08:21:20 AM by haunted »
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Offline haunted

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1063 on: March 08, 2020, 10:12:57 AM »
Barrack Obama's response on meeting with foreign adversaries:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuv08j1BuWo

Tulsi Gabbard's:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qear58KwS3g (half-way through)

Same answer. Obama praised by the left, Gabbard was vilified.
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Offline Punk_FAS

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Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« Reply #1064 on: March 08, 2020, 12:16:38 PM »
Really? You're saying you're not sure you understand what I'm saying here? I read this last night, and decided to just go to bed from how silly this reply was.

Perhaps I didn't understand what you were saying because you implied that Trump's trigger for saying something is "fake news" has anything at all to do with the topic's legitimacy. This implies that if something, anything, painted Trump in a negative light there is the potential of him conceding that it was true and that he failed, screwed up, or the criticism was justified. That's not how his brain works.
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