Math is truly gay

[The Happy Friar]

that means a good proportion of the population struggles with addition and subtraction.

Well, the treasury department did announce today that the national debt is $16trillion. 

You're right though.  In college I was in a math class with a bunch of wanna-be engineers who couldn't get how to do quadratic functions on a TI83 (best calc I ever owned!) and I was doing them on paper (how I was taught).

Some people just don't have the knack for it though, just like some don't have the knack for music, language, etc.  Not sure why schools are pushing everyone to be these super-genius engineers, doctors, lawyers, etc.  For every single engineer it takes dozes of "average" folks to follow though.

[ex]

Well, the real reason behind anything is money.  You force people to take classes that you know they aren't going to be good at, they'll have to fail and repeat 2 3 4 times or even more.  Each time paying a nice big tuition cost.  After the 3rd attempt here in Texas, you get charged out-of-state tuition to retake the same class over.  It's all about the money, not the math.   

The real truth is NOT what Barton is saying, btw.  It's what Friar said, people are born with different levels of talent for different things.  Some take to math easily.  Some take to art.  Some take to science, some to language skills, some to music, some to athletics.  Hell, some people are only good at one thing in particular, actually, so it really is a joke to force everyone to learn to exact same curriculum.  It's like they WANT people to fail and flunk out.  Here's the truth:  They do, because it makes the elite powers more money that way.  Keep the population poor, shut them out of ways to make more money, and you can tax them into oblivion, with no real way for them to fight back.

Now all of this is not to say that if you are untalented at something, that you can't work your way up to certain level.  But it's like this:  You blow ass at math, and you work and work and work all the way up to Statistics and Stock Market analytics.  You'll be pretty much at the bottom of that pool.  People who rape the stock market started about where you worked your whole life up to.  That's the difference.  So it's stupid to force someone who isn't good at something to learn it in the first place.

I have to use the example of schools like Juilliard, which don't even teach the "core" curriculum.  Or like conservatories overseas, they don't bother with that garbage, you go there to become an elite in the career path you've chosen.  But not here in America.  This is the land of the mediocre.

And on what Foc said:  I'm literally I think the only person that I knew from college who came back and is nearly done.  They all got to the math part and quit.  I'm not joking, out of the music dept., they all quit and got jobs teaching private lessons, doing gigs, etc.  I only know of 2 other people who were lucky enough to know how to do math easily.  Everyone else said to hell with it, especially with how the system is rigged nowadays to get you in massive amounts of debt with no real way to pay it off in your working lifetime.  It's a joke.

I look at some of my friends who started when I did, but instead of going into school, went to ITT tech or a trade institute, got a 1 year certification, and became mechanics, electricians, HVAC repairers, and they're all in houses now, BIG houses, making $100,000+ a year.  I feel like I've wasted the last 10 years of my goddamn life on a system that was rigged to waste it.  To be fair, I guess hindsight is 20/20, it just amazes me that the system is set up to fail people this badly.

My friend who dropped out in 6th grade, smoked crack for 10 years, and now does HVAC, is sitting in a house with a pool in a white neighborhood with a wife and money falling out of his ass.  He's my age, too, 29.  I have to stop thinking about this or I might become irate.

/rant

[Barton]

Well ex, I was mainly saying that from experience. I never did good in Middle/High school math (never tried or cared), only to graduated HS having learn Algebra 2. I tested in college algebra in college and had to retake it. Did much better then and ever since, cuz I put in some effort. I don't think everyone will be great at math but I don't see what's stopping most people from at least understanding algebra.

I know what you mean about them wanting you to take as many classes as possible. My school took my entry chemistry 101 course at my college and gave credit, but apparently they evaluate it lower than the lowest chemistry course they offer. Sounds like bs to me cuz I bet you I won't learn anything new or useful from their course, so I'ma test out into the course I need or a class below. Screw em'.

Yeah though it's really true how people who went into trades these days are really paying off, especially those who eventually went off to make their own private businesses in construction. I do sometimes wish I went to trade school after I graduated from high school too.

[quadz]

I know the Greeks invented a lot of the math we still use today.  If I had a time machine, I'd travel back in it and slice the heads off these motherfuckers. 

Paradox detected: Whoever built the time machine used beaucoup math.

[haunted]

rainbows and butterflies

[ex]

Well, if I felt your post had any other meaning than a drunken stupor, I'd delete it as an admin would to clean up this thread a little.  Fortunately, I am more forgiving than most would be.

You live in a little bubble world of your own existence where you are naturally good at the things you do, and you expect everyone else to have just as easy a time as you have.  Hate to break it to you, but you ARE gifted with math; most people have to actually WORK to get somewhere in math, unlike you, so to come off this arrogantly is just sad.  Seriously, what's wrong with you?  Get a reality check.  You are a real jerk sometimes bro.

And just so you know, it's not my "friends in Texas", but people across this entire nation that have problems with math.  Math is made to be intentionally counter-intuitive.  Base logic steers you in one direction.  When you try to apply that to math, you continually get the incorrect results.  Why?  Because it was set up to BE the opposite result.  In fact, that's why Stock Market mathematics are so absurdly hard to understand.  They got master mathematicians to make ridiculously overly-complicated equations to work the stock market.  I saw some of it...like factoring a factor to the 1000 power.  No wonder the Stock Market is out of control...only a few people can understand it, and they screw over EVERYONE based on that fact.

I guess what irritates me the most is that people are born with their talents.  I was born with musical genius, most people weren't, and I know for sure that if I started saying "that ain't shit" to what someone was playing, that would make them get the fuck away from music permanently, the opposite effect that is needed in humanity.  I would NEVER come down on someone who is struggling and say "it ain't shit what you're struggling with", I would try and help them.  In fact, I have helped many people who don't even know where middle C is on the grand staff, get to the point of actually enjoying playing for fun.  And I didn't do it by saying "you're trash, that ain't shit, you're a joke", even if that's what I was thinking.  It's about being more mature than white trash.

[ex]

BTW even though you're being an asshole tonight, I still like ya. 

[|iR|Focalor]

I look at some of my friends who started when I did, but instead of going into school, went to ITT tech or a trade institute, got a 1 year certification, and became mechanics, electricians, HVAC repairers, and they're all in houses now, BIG houses, making $100,000+ a year.  I feel like I've wasted the last 10 years of my goddamn life on a system that was rigged to waste it.  To be fair, I guess hindsight is 20/20, it just amazes me that the system is set up to fail people this badly.

My friend who dropped out in 6th grade, smoked crack for 10 years, and now does HVAC, is sitting in a house with a pool in a white neighborhood with a wife and money falling out of his ass.  He's my age, too, 29.  I have to stop thinking about this or I might become irate.

Nah. Nah. Not at all. Even if you get certified to do HVAC, your life won't be THAT fucking cushy. 100,000+ a year is someone bullshitting you. NO ONE in the hvac trade these days makes that much except the guys back in the office. The engineers who draft and design it all, the office bosses, the project managers... maybe they'll make that much, but none of the greasemonkeys in the field will see that kind of money, ESPECIALLY not these days. A lot of contractors have closed the doors since the building boom got the fuck outta Dodge back in 08. They can find techs and fitters and sheetmetal workers all over the place who need work, and they can pay them chump change because A, they know they're desperate, and B, because everyones had to bid jobs so low that contractors are FORCED to cut their field laborers pay. Any of these guys doing HVAC work, unless they are UNION pipefitters, they aren't making a helluva lot. If they seem to be doing okay, then they must have an old lady who's helping out by bringing home a decent paycheck, probably more than the HVAC guy is making. Even pipefitters who are certified to weld aren't making much. They make maybe 20 to 25 dollars an hour topping out. They make about 40,000-50,000/yr, and thats not including taking out taxes, so its even less. Not to mention it's hard fucking work. It's lots of heavy lifting, getting filth all over you, sometimes its dangerous, and you gotta work in the freezing cold and blistering heat. That shit might not be so bad when you're young, but when you get into your 40's and 50's, that shit is torture. By the time you're 40, you'll FEEL 60, and sometimes look it too. This is precisely what I was talking about in that last post. You either find whatever fucking way you can to get that damn degree in your hand, or this will become your shitty miserable fucking destiny. You'll be someone else's SLAVE LABORER for the rest of your back ache and arthritis filled life.

[QwazyWabbit]

If you have a TI-83 or better, here's a little trick in case you didn't know ex. Teachers certainly don't show you or want you to know this function...

press the button math, then scroll down to 'solver' or hit 0.

It displays the equation 0= so, to equate it to zero you would do this...example:

3x^3 = -13x^2 + 10x

so you just make it = 0 by doing this:

3x^3 + 13x^2 - 10x = 0

you can enter that in the calculator's equation solver function and it'll solve for X, but there's a catch. obviously there's going to be 3 values for x given the polynomial. so after you enter the equation and it prompts you a "Guess", it's going to display the closest value for X to that guess. If you can imagine what the graph looks like for something like that it's easy... and just from looking at it, you know 0 has to be one of the x values(plug 0 in for x, you obviously get 0)... the others are 2/3 and -5(don't forget to put negatives in your guesses... you could have gotten both of those by using -10 and 10 as your 2 guesses).

factoring it produces the same results obviously,

x(3x - 2)(x+5) ... then set them individually to 0

x=0 , 3x-2=0 , x+5 = 0..

0, 2/3, -5 , same answers

I got some news for you. These are not linear equations. If your intent was to help ex, I think you failed.

[ex]

Wabbit, I was having problems with factoring about a month ago, that's why he's showing me the calculator trick, which I am very happy to learn.    As far as not being linear equation material, it's related to it I believe.

I think I was just to a barfing limit yesterday, I did math for about 7 hours straight.  I was starting to get angry at numbers.  Even looking at the computer clock in the right-lower corner was pissing me off.     What's great is I let it settle for the night, and finished my homework and took an online test with all the hard material I just went over, and aced the bitch.  I was just frazzled to my limit yesterday. 


And btw Foc, you're right.  The dude I was talking about was upcharging on customers to get that 90,000/year, and he was skipping out on paying his taxes.  All in all, when you deduct what he should've payed the IRS, and deduct what he should've actually charged his customers, it turns out to be around 50,000.  He was upselling like an escort on those people. 

Now my electrician friend on the other hand, is not an idiot, doesn't upcharge, pays his taxes, and is bringing home around 65,000/year after taxes.  He's been doing it for about 8 years and has his own personal business now with a couple buddies working under him, so that's how his money is increasing.  He told me he expects to be in the 100,000/yr range in about 5-7 years, with 20 or so employees under him, if all goes to plan *crosses fingers*. 

Another young guy I know (32 I think) works for a call center company (hive of companies really), where he's the boss of a few different offices.  He's making around 120,000, but he says after the government rapes him, he brings home about 75,000 usually.  He told me it's because the government doesn't think someone as young as him should be rolling in that kind of money, and they tax the shit out of him for it.  Fuckin' Fed.

[|iR|Focalor]

Independent residential and retrofit work might bring a tad more than commercial since YOU can charge whatever the hell you want for labor and materials, but no one's gonna be raping people so much that they could make 90k a year doing it, and no ones gonna get away with not paying taxes in that line of work. You gotta be licensed and bonded for that kind of work to get anyone to hire you. Not to mention, any old joe schmoe off the street can't walk into a United Refrigeration and buy a canister of freon. There are laws governing who can purchase it and sell it in order to keep idiots from disposing of it improperly and burning a billion holes in the ozone layer. Buddy ain't gonna get away with not paying taxes in that line of work while doing enough work to make close to that much. He's full of shit.

[fdrjk]

He's making around 120,000, but he says after the government rapes him, he brings home about 75,000 usually.  He told me it's because the government doesn't think someone as young as him should be rolling in that kind of money, and they tax the shit out of him for it. 

If I didn't fail my financial literacy class, then I know that after taxes, the government takes around 25-27% of your paycheck in taxes.

Also, that's a pretty ignorant thing for that guy to say. Sounds like he's just making an excuse for not making 120k a year, which, again, if I didn't fail my finance class, is WAY more than enough to live off of and more.

[soh]

They actually teach Financial Literacy in High School?

[The Happy Friar]

Here's the truth:  They do, because it makes the elite powers more money that way.  Keep the population poor, shut them out of ways to make more money, and you can tax them into oblivion, with no real way for them to fight back.

Here's the truth: lazy people think "the man" is trying to keep them down and use that as an excuse.   A stupid person who can do something great never knows about "the man" and succeeds anyways because they're not smart enough to be lazy.   John Carmack & Keen is my absolute favorite example of this. 

Lazy doesn't mean you won't get up and go to work, go to class, etc.  Lazy means that when you can do better you don't because you find a reason not to.  The successful don't have the time to realize they're going to fail.

[haunted]

q.rabbit: He was having problems with factoring, and since it's probably the first few weeks of school I chose something a little more advanced than what he was talking about in hope of helping him out. Considering the level of math he is in also, that little calculator trick will help out a lot.

and ex.... I was  drunk and probably forgot I wasn't in the Gen. Smack Talk section. But, that doesn't mean what I said wasn't right. You only truly took offense to my words because you've taken such a defeatist stance with this. I'm certain of this, but I apologize for what I said.