Jump Training

[Chargers]

I see that this sub-forum is pretty dead, but I was wondering if anyone is still around to give some training.

I could use some help with jumping.  I don't mean the jump server; just q2dm1 jumps would be sufficient.
I can make some of the 'medium' difficult jumps sometimes but I need training on improving my success percentage(never tried the hard or really hard ones, but I'll never make those).

Is anyone willing to help?     
TIA

[haunted]

Yep. Download an IRC client (mirc, kvirc, xchat, etc.) and connect to enterthegame.com / random server or whatever it says. and /join #tastyspleen or /join #nadl in the prompt. Hit me up tonight even if you want.

[Chargers]

Yep. Download an IRC client (mirc, kvirc, xchat, etc.) and connect to enterthegame.com / random server or whatever it says. and /join #tastyspleen or /join #nadl in the prompt. Hit me up tonight even if you want.

Great, that is very kind of you.
Unfortunately, I'm not smart enough to know how to correctly compile a secure IRC client that will work on my system, so I can't meet in an IRC channel.
Perhaps I can meet up on nadl or some other server.  I probably need to be shown IN the game anyway.

[haunted]

just join up to tourney4, nadl, or wherever and actually say my name, "haunted"

it'll prompt my irc client in one of the channels that show a live feed of the servers(#tastyspleen-live).. and if i'm around like i will be tonight, then i'll join up.

xchat works well w/ linux, btw.. if that's relevant.

[[BTF]Sigma]

There are some people here that can help you with getting your selected IRC build up and running. Many here are familiar with multiple OS builds and can be a great wealth of knowledge if provided with details of what you are running.

Best of luck on nailing those veteran jumps. I may benefit from sitting in on those sessions. Mainly I found watching demos in one instance, being live in another, and alt-Tab-ing to switch between the two and the jump section's demos allowed me to watch like I had my own replay going. You can hold SHIFT in a replay while using R1Q2 and mouse the camera around to see better angles of a jump.

Hope this helps.

[bluemeanies]

Firefox has a Chatzilla add on too that lets you connect to irc

[Chargers]

Haunted was nice enough to try to help me out.  I guess it wasn't a successful training, because I still have no idea how to make jumps more frequently... or what the trick is to doing them in the first place.
Taking 30 tries to finally make a jump means I have no idea what I'm actually doing.
I tweaked my settings and now I get 74fps.  Haunted said something about vsync capping that.  I assume it is not enabled, but does anyone know how to disable vsync?

[haunted]

You disable it through your video card settings... if there is no option to do so in those settings(there isn't any with the intel onboard gfx on my laptop I play with) then do like I do:  use r1q2 and the cmd gl_swapinterval "0", this allows me to timerefresh above the amount of hertz my monitor is synced to, which is 75. If you're timerefreshing and only getting 74.48273459234(or something like that) like you were saying, it was my best guess that 1) vsync is on and 2) your monitor sync'd to 75hz... I use 75hz specifically because it translates well to 120 through gl_swapinterval "0", imo.

[Chargers]

Sorry, I wasn't clear.  It is disabled in the graphics card settings for Direct3D and Opengl already.
If I ever have to move to a port of quake2, then there wouldn't be any reason to be playing quake2 anymore.

[haunted]

Have you tried gl_swapinterval 0 ?

[VaeVictis]

Sorry, I wasn't clear.  It is disabled in the graphics card settings for Direct3D and Opengl already.
If I ever have to move to a port of quake2, then there wouldn't be any reason to be playing quake2 anymore.

lol why?

r1q2 has so many more features and aprq2 if you are a bitch

q2pro is pretty awesome too, and then there is the odd ball egl that some people use cause its shiney...

[haunted]

You should at least load up r1q2 and try gl_swapinterval 0, chargers.. at the very least, you'll be more informed about it and will have some more reasoning behind any preconceived notions you have about using a client with q2.

If you do wish to try it out, make sure this is in your autoexec:

set gl_swapinterval 0
set cl_async 0
set r_maxfps 1000
set cl_maxfps 120

[Chargers]

So, I only get 74fps because that is all my card/computer can do.
I can get 116fps by dropping my screen resolution considerably... but that is worse than playing normal.
It appears that everyone assumes your setup can do 120fps.... 

On one hand I am very thankful for the work that Rich and others have done to port the game for modern operating systems.  Certainly each of those people have made many personal sacrifices for our benefit and everyone who plays quake2 today owes them thanks.

But it is disappointing that these server/client ports only exploit an already unbalanced game instead of re-writing the game to be even for all players.
The client-side processing (display, movement, rendering, and prediction) make the game unbalanced.  Designed out of the quakeworld experiment, Quake2 was, by design, not going to be even for each player... it's primary goal was to be playable for non-heterogeneous clients... in short, it was designed for online play.
Well, nothing is perfect.  And you would say, "Everyone knows it is unbalanced; if you don't like it, don't play it seriously".
I've always understood that, but perhaps not appreciated it fully.

I guess my complaint is that the difference between clients is so very great now, that the game is more unfair than ever.
THAT is the one major gameflaw that has never been addressed by the port developers.

For you latest generation of players who only know 200+ fps, on my first computer that I played q2, I often rocketjumped backwards to reach the 100health on q2dm1.  My client was so slow, that even a well-executed rocketjump sometimes I would just make it other times I couldn't get that high.  Ok, you doubt my skill in that.  Another example.  Q2dm6 outside, grab the armor and run toward the cell pack.  My client was so slow, that I could not make that jump on my computer... I had to go around and take the stairs.
Now, this is admittedly a bit of an extreme example by today's standards, but this was a computer that easily met the minimum requirements to play the game, it had a 3dfx card and I won a lot of games. 

Even my computer today is grossly unfair to players in that environment.  The current server and client ports only further to exploit this issue instead of working to repair/fix it.
It seems that 80% of this community is quick to point fingers at suspected cheaters.  Well, I say, look in the mirror.  Now, I don't claim to be 100% clean or in a unique handicapped circumstance or anything.
However, I would bet that 98% of the players playing quake2 online today are using some enhancement that gives them a measureable edge (from the settings on their computer that manipulate the display, movement, rendering, and prediction of their client) over a default install.

These enhancements range from harmless to flagrant hacking... where the line gets drawn for what is considered actually cheating is each person's personal opinion.

For this reason, I play the real game and don't personally modify anything unless it can be changed in the game menu. (one single exception to that is that I increase the brightness because the ATI card I use is excessively dark -- many of you know of what I speak.  I only modify that so I can actually see players in the same room as me.)

But I'm speaking to the hypocritical hackers themselves.  I am speaking to you.
Most of you are quick to judge someone like David.  While I personally do not think he is cheating, I do think he is a monster of the machine that YOU all created.  He is a master of Quake2 and indisputably one of the top 10 players that ever played this game... if he got his head together he could win every match he ever plays.
But David is a result of this slippery slope of allowed enhancements that you all love so much.  You love it while it benefits you but when you are on the pointy end of that stick you(well, most of you) whine and point fingers or complain to tournament admins.
Timers were originally banned for obvious reasons... then allowed forever because their use couldn't be prevented.  It is this top-down allowed approach that has eaten away at this game.
Are glow models cheating?  If you said, "no", it is because you like having that advantage over other players... you've probably used them for so long, you don't even recall seeing the game without them.
Are modified sounds cheating?   "But I like hearing cows moo" some of you say.  But what about global sounds or loud footsteps or water exits or railgun/BFG hum or or or....  of course they are cheats.
I don't need to walk through every "enhancement" that you guys use, but realize that cheats that people collectively consider cheats are just a bit further down this slope.  I'm not saying that playing with cl_maxfps 120 or using timers is as much of a cheat as wallhacking or a proxy packet-filter/aimbot, but it is still a cheat.

I personally enjoyed many years of having a good network connection to most of the servers I play on.  In the early years, I had a computer that was much better than average and I reaped the benefits of that.  In my defense, I always acknowledged the fact that I had advantages in the game that other players didn't.
I don't expect anyone, who doesn't still use the real game, to have anything but contempt and a lack of sympathy for this post.
I don't expect any individual or group to re-write the core gaming engine to a 14+ year old game either.
I realize that we aren't playing Quake2 anymore...  that we play an updated port of that game.  That most of my argument cruxes on this point; that server admins like Quadz (and port designers like Rich) are perhaps unnecessarily kind in allowing quake2.exe clients to still play.
 
That modified clients with these enhancements built in ARE the expected default client for the existing quake2-compliant servers and tournaments.

Just like Quake3 and all the idsoftware games before it, the hacked up, souped up port of the game is flagwaved and sold as the real game.
The EDL and the TS servers shouldn't call themselves quake2... they are quake2-compliant.... quake2012 or something...

If you wish to get ahold of me, talk to me in the game.... I'll be right behind you!  (not because I'm going to shoot you, I'm on your team, I'm just slow)

[haunted]

haha, sure you posted all of this in the right thread?

You likely can get 120 fps chargers. I wish you'd drop by in IRC and listen to me with all of this, i'd be more than happy to help you get it working right.

I don't even have a video card.. I am using a laptop with 1 gig of ram and onboard gfx that is 7 years old.. and I timerefresh at more than 200 fps.... If 74 fps is all you could get, then you would be dealing with massive fps drops when too many people are on the server, too many projectiles, etc.... meaning, if 74 was the best you could get, you would likely average about 55 or so, reaching as low as 25-30.

You have a lot of preconceived notions about settings changes that aren't too accurate, and especially clients. You have to use r1q2, or one of the other clients, for anticheat.dll to even work.

Primarily i'd like to point out, going by your logic, you should be using software mode... right? If not, you do realize that using a stock quake2.exe autoexec isn't even geared appropriately for openGL? Typing in 4-5 cmds to take away the orangey look(something that only happens in GL, not original software mode, and is an example of the inappropriate settings) and then in turn, up the brightness with 3 other brightness cmds that you likely don't have at the right value. Some new maps, new has in post-2003, require these certain values. Certain video cards even require their use, which is why they exist. It has nothing to do with providing an edge, it's a straight-up necessity, and you're misinformed about it.

So please try to be open-minded, the thing you are encouraging everyone else to do. You can say that paks give an edge, you can say that brightskins give an edge, and several other things..... but what I speak of has NOTHING, ZERO to do with giving an edge... it's you unknowingly inconveniencing yourself, and lumping it in with your opinions on paks. The same with clients like r1q2... I can move and jump the way I do just fine with quake2.exe, period. But it's fine if you want to have that opinion about r1q2, although quite aimless imo. The only reason I suggested it, is so it could turn vsync off for you as a 3rd party program, being that you were having difficulty doing so in your ATI card settings, or perhaps even understanding what I was saying.

I would even go as far to say that your opinions on a lot of this likely developed from you assuming that what you're using is the legit, unbalanced, stock while unknowingly inconveniencing yourself with just a few simple settings. These few cmds are all 1) far more important than any client, 2) far more important than any pak, and 3) far more important than any other edge you have mentioned aside from a deliberate cheat. So basically you're right.. everyone DOES have an edge on you... but it's because you are deliberately putting yourself at a disadvantage, NOT because everyone else is doing something advantageous. All of my 99.9% of the demos I have posted on this site are using stock q2, just fyi.

Download mIRC, kvirc, xchat, and connect to IRC on enterthegame.com .. /join #nadl and I'd be happy to work with you and resolve this stuff.

[quadz]

David is a result of this slippery slope of allowed enhancements that you all love so much.  You love it while it benefits you but when you are on the pointy end of that stick you(well, most of you) whine and point fingers or complain to tournament admins.
Timers were originally banned for obvious reasons... then allowed forever because their use couldn't be prevented.  It is this top-down allowed approach that has eaten away at this game.
Are glow models cheating?  If you said, "no", it is because you like having that advantage over other players... you've probably used them for so long, you don't even recall seeing the game without them.
Are modified sounds cheating?   "But I like hearing cows moo" some of you say.  But what about global sounds or loud footsteps or water exits or railgun/BFG hum or or or....  of course they are cheats.
I don't need to walk through every "enhancement" that you guys use, but realize that cheats that people collectively consider cheats are just a bit further down this slope.  I'm not saying that playing with cl_maxfps 120 or using timers is as much of a cheat as wallhacking or a proxy packet-filter/aimbot, but it is still a cheat.

OMG! DR. DANIEL HEIMBACH IS THAT YOU????

(

If marriage is radically redefined as being just a way of affirming private feelings of loving attraction, then equality will require allowing people who love dogs to marry dogs, and people who love ice cream to marry ice cream!

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