Some TDM Map Idea Updates: Golgo can't delete these responses.

[haunted]

about adrenaline(the item, and on ztn2dm3),

First, as a rule I grab it if I have 60 health or less on rage.

Second, I actually grab adrenal1ne 9/10 opportunities to do so anyway, even if I have full health. I REALLY have to foresee a use for it, else I will settle for taking it and in turn knowing it's exact timing / knowing my opponent won't have it. I truly think it's the best option, although it can backfire. Also, I do not like it when I wear someone down completely just for them to snag the adrenaline that's in the middle of the area I'm controlling... :>

Anyway, I seem to have more success denying adrenaline / using it on occasion(taking it more = knowing the timing more = more likely to use it for health benefit than your opponent), opposed to just using it solely to benefit my health.

[VaeVictis]

about adrenaline(the item, and on ztn2dm3),

First, as a rule I grab it if I have 60 health or less on rage.

Second, I actually grab adrenal1ne 9/10 opportunities to do so anyway, even if I have full health. I REALLY have to foresee a use for it, else I will settle for taking it and in turn knowing it's exact timing / knowing my opponent won't have it. I truly think it's the best option, although it can backfire. Also, I do not like it when I wear someone down completely just for them to snag the adrenaline that's in the middle of the area I'm controlling... :>

Anyway, I seem to have more success denying adrenaline / using it on occasion(taking it more = knowing the timing more = more likely to use it for health benefit than your opponent), opposed to just using it solely to benefit my health.

timing the adren on rage is an awesome thing to do if you feel the need its something lesser players will easily over look, but it has given me wins on more than one occasion

however i usually dont do it unless im playing some one where ever bit of damage counts, like kickr0, naym or pyr3x

[haunted]

 

[VaeVictis]

you dont understand 1v1 at all

ztn2dm3 is perfectly balanced with RL/RA/CG on one side, and Rail+MH on the other, each side has a YA, which the down player can get both if they are tricky, plus, the "weaker" side of the map has a 25 health and better defensible positions

the balance comes from the ability to excersize distancing in your play, if you are down, dont let them get close with rl/chain and work some defensive nades into your game, and with the rail you can easily do peak shots on the more vulnerable open section of the map where RA is, as well as push off and reposition when any rushes occur from the wrong angle (IE sitting at the hallway by lift when they come up the GL stairs, rail then, take the blue hallway, rail them again as they go back down the stairs)

not to mention, its easy enough to steal RA if the person has a priority to control MH and RA at the same time, just wait for them to be similarly timed, or have them rush by tricking them, sneak around and take RA, having both items that far apart whether or not one player is controlling them adds balance to the ability to retake control

there is no way possible that hyper could balance out ztn2dm3

and on the subject of ptrip, the map is a bit more one sided than rage, but its an even older map that plays a specific style, its a small map that doesnt have room for all weapons, and adding a hyper in there would only make the map slightly annoying to play, the vertical play involved along with spam rockets and peak shots is what makes ptrip so great, but if you add hyper in there it would play exactly the same, its not like dm1 where you can get a 100/100 stack and let mh burn a little bit so you face a 125ish/100 stack with hyper, you would be facing 100/200 possibly, with them likely having RL and chain, and you having a max of 100/100, it would just be a waste of space on the map and give more sound cues with pickups to aid the person in control

both maps work perfectly fine they way they are, every popular q2 duel map has a unique style developed by its geometry, item selection, item placement, and spawns... there is no way to "improve" on any of them, even the "improvement" of adding ra under the stairs of dm1 is ridiculous and will never be preferred by more skilled players on the tourney servers

the only "improvements" adding or changing weapon position might do, is make noobs feel less shitty because they will have to be less creative to do damage

if you feel that you need more weapons to have more options on a map, just stop playing 1v1 now, dont ever touch it again, you lack the brain to pull off anything even slightly impressive

[Whirlingdervish]

i think all maps can accomodate all the weapons.

That's why we call you stupid.

[fdrjk]

There's 31 units of health in the entire RG area of ztn2dm3, a Jacket armor, and a Yellow armor, which equals 59 units of Yellow armor, not to mention the megahealth. There's 30 shells including the Super Shotgun, which is really good for fending people off Mega and chipping out armor and getting your enemies health down so you can get mega faster if your enemy has it. Not to mention you could spam nades until you have 100 YA. If you add a hyperblaster, the entire map is dominated by it. It fires 10 time per second, which equals to about 150 health per second with perfect accuracy, and 60+ damage per second with average accuracy, which is still a lot. A person stacked with 200 health and 200 RA could cut someone down with 100 YA and 100 health in seconds with little to no accuracy, because the hyperblaster it most effective at medium ranges and short ranges.

On ptrip, it's even more unbalancing because the map doesn't have megahealth and offers the person who's not in control only minimal room to recover. (YA in SSG, railgun, and rocket launcher if you time it right.) A stacked person who's in complete control of the map could stack up on cells and completely dominate ANYBODY with SSG and even chain, because the map very, very small. Not to mention BOTH maps have adrenaline to stack yourself back up if your opponent gives you any small damage.

Like I said, a bad idea with my initial 

(Also, it's not a good idea when you're trying to change maps like ptrip and Rage on all server and the thread you're trying to convince people with is locked for everyone to make fun of you in a completely different thread. )

[haunted]

  emo clouds on all


<jesse> first, the standard in duel is playing super gay with lots of spam... because if that isn't your foundation then you are going to get super gay'd / spammed. Most kills aren't obtained because they aimed the weapon well in duel, and that's all there is to it. and SECONDLY, before I explain this, I actually like the hyperblaster
<MCS_FaderJok0> Short range, chain < hyper
<MCS_FaderJok0> :x
<jesse> take dm1, look at it's hyperblaster placement that is entirely unique to the maps that were being discussed
<jesse> completely out in the open, if you get it 95% of the time you aren't in control, which means if we assume top level of play you will lose 100+units even acquiring it(by someone getting 1-2 rails in, or however many cg bullets in)
<jesse> from someone's pov who LOVES hyper
<jesse> I think it's placed well being that it's the easiest weapon to both kill people with, and die by
<jesse> by easiest I mean with the least effort
<CaRn> Hyper got a bunch of bad reputation back in my day.. 1997-1998 a lot of people were on dialup pinging 400.. Tons of people in FFA DM lagging the hell out of people on Pentium 1 166mhz, and 2MB video cards
<CaRn> would lag me to hell
<|iR|Focalor> all the polygons rendered I guess
<MCS_FaderJok0> The lag gun
<MCS_FaderJok0>
<jesse> well, it is the lag gun and not just because it lags people either. If your used to 20 ping and your dodging a rocket with 55-60 ping, you'll get splashed barely and be like wtf, I thought I barely dodged that
<jesse> dodging hyper is just as whack with highping as dodging rockets or anything is
<jesse> or, probably the gayest
<jesse> like... if those overrides were to be implemented(they're not)..... I would go hyper only on people for amusement... I mean ptrip? looooool
<jesse> it would be like my new nades only
<jesse> THAT is how ridiculous it is, on ptrip anyway
<jesse> not quite as bad on rage, and my other points were more so directed on that
<jesse> Also, this is another thing I wanted to mention... Most people think of rage in terms of that RA area, but really the primary thing on that map is weapon denial. That strategy > anyone who is just simply trying to time RA anyway. Timing RA is a good thing, but I'm just saying I'd give it up to deny RG, RL, or CG. All putting it on rage would do for me is that I would add HB to that list of things to deny
<jesse> I really do not think it will make it more balance

TL;DR

At a high level of competition, hyper favors the person who is in control. At a low level of competition, hyper favors the person without control. Just like it's the easiest weapon to get a kill with in duel(least effort), and in turn the easiest weapon to die by.

[VaeVictis]

hyper only... its quite entertaining do it occasionally on dm1

rips people to shreds faster than chain if the shot placement is correct

EDIT: back on topic...

since vae was being such a complainer.. i got some more pics for his fav map.  Double Plus good! 

pretty sure hes just trolling at this point... might have been serious when he started but after getting raped that hard by everyone that replied, i think he defaulted to trolling... really, why hasnt he had thread making privileges restricted -.-

[Sgt. Dick]

The way he deletes everyones post in his topic and responds to other threads in his topic is the GAYEST thing I have ever seen. 

I have been here for many years and there have been many idiots that have passed thru here, but I think JaQueero tops the list.

[M1SERY]

 I agree, vae had his own charm but this guy is just stupid.

[Barton]

I'm having a hard time understanding what's your motivation behind modifying these maps. You want to change maps that have been exhaustively played in both casual and tournament settings-for, my guess, more than ten years. At this point, it's not really worth changing those old maps. It just messes up the established knowledge base and strategies based around those maps, only for that to be all wasted effort on a player's part since there's this other version of the same map. Overrides work better in the deathmatch setting, since knowing these things are less important and detrimental to the player base.

If you really want to do the 1v1/tdm scene a real favor, how about making a new map specifically for those mods? It's not as easy task as making overrides but the reward is far more reaching and fruitful.

[ztev0]

of course, most people will not try something unless they are forced to.

force people to play your altered maps? you don't even play tdm. gtfo

[haunted]

of course, most people will not try something unless they are forced to. most times they even like the changes after playing it a while. again, i'm not forcing anyone to play the overrides.

never know until you try. just depends on who you ask.[/glow]

 

[haunted]

Sounds to me like JaQueero can't do well with the maps the way they are, so he wants to add more weapons to hopefully give himself a better chance.

He has a different agenda than trying to "balance" these maps, for sure. He's tried to do this at every community... He can't troll the CTF community now because it's non-existent though, so now it's on to us.

Why isn't he wanting to change q2rdm7 for it's lack of shotgun, machinegun, and normal hand grenade pick-ups? Because "weapon completion" is an insufficient answer. Most duel maps do not even have the complete weapon set... it's just a very stupid reason he's using to cover the fact that he *THINKS* these changes will benefit him, lol. Why does he think it'll benefit him? because his world are the bold parts of the statement below, he is clueless to the other half.

At a high level of competition, hyper favors the person who is in control. At a low level of competition, hyper favors the person without control. Just like it's the easiest weapon to get a kill with in duel(least effort), and in turn the easiest weapon to die by.

Top tier dueling = item control, weapon denial above all. as I mentioned earlier, hyperblaster is one of the most risky weapon grabs on dm1... RG is more risky, and maybe lower RL, but that's it. So there's a risk in acquiring it, and there's a lot more distance involved on dm1; Hyper becomes exponentially a less effective weapon on dm1(from the long distances) than other maps, because it's harder to force someone into a situation(ex: narrow corridor) where it COULD be very effective.

The typical person JaQuIO agrees to play with on his overrides will NOT be controlling items / denying weapons, and they will hardly even be taking note of the new hyperblaster.. therefore giving him a small bit of "control" under these circumstances. It has nothing to do with trying something new v. purists lmfao. NEW? This is the SAME OLD routine that he's been doing at every community... trying to trick people into playing on his lame modifications. It just blows my mind.. it's like he just discovered that hyperblaster kills people fast or something.

Anyway... let him have his silly maps. If he causes any problems for you on the TDM servers, hit me up in IRC and I'll resolve it for you. So just a warning, jaq... don't be holding up games or tricking people into playing these maps.... I will just change the map without a vote. Otherwise have fun on your overrides.

EDIT: Theres no way of putting runes on opentdm, right? My posts get deleted when I ask him what the runes are for in the screenshots.

random thought: Looking forward to playing Jaq on his ptrip override.

[bluemeanies]

So just a warning, jaq... don't be holding up games or tricking people into playing these maps....

of course we all know he will be doing this. is there any doubt that he will now be idling in some of the TDM servers with his maps loaded waiting for unsuspecting players to jump in. if he had any balls, he would alert these players that they are playing an override, but again, we all know that won't happen either.

in his delusional gump world, he will be doing these purists a favor by freeing them from the same old boring way of playing a given map by "forcing" them to try a different version.

i fully anticipate a flood of overrides for all commonly played tdm maps to now come from him since he's been given a little bit of attention and empowered to have these maps uploaded. he won't be able to help himself...