Re: Jack Kevorkian - Karma assisted suicide

[fdrjk]

[|iR|Focalor]

That's the way the world works.^{[so far, we agree]}  The bible is what god defined^{[citation needed]}, it's the natural way of life^{[citation needed]}, explained to humans by humans^[agree!], through their connection to god^{[citation needed]}.  Basically it helps people walk the correct path of life^{[citation needed]}, work for charity, etc.  In fact it has created civilization^{[citation needed]} and added even more harmony to life^{[citation needed]}.  Just remember if you took away god from the prisoners, what they would have left, and that there's no purpose to anything else.^{[citation needed]}

The Bible has added harmony to life? The Bible began infusing division between peoples and creating animosity the second it stated that Jews are Gods "chosen people", indicating that he favors Jews more than anyone else. Maybe from where you view it as a person who has faith in it, you like to only look at the positive aspects of it, but from where I sit, all I see it doing is constantly striving to create division by labeling everyone either sinner or saved, jew or gentile, saint or false prophet.

I could also mention how wars, crusades, and genocide has all been carried out because of men fighting over their ideas of proper and correct faith in relation to the Bible, but I don't think that applies to this specific argument. The Bible itself never called for these things to take place after the New Testament was finished being written. These are just things that stupid people have done on their own because they felt compelled to do so after reading a book. It's just a book. It's not inherently good OR evil. It's what PEOPLE allow themselves to do after filling their minds with a books information that is good or evil.

[reaper]

One defintion of evidence -

Evidence: A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment

What you will have put forward there, at best, represents the first inklings of a potential hypothesis, which you'd need to develop, and then go searching for evidence to support.  Those concatenations of nouns alone do not constitute evidence.

 

I was talking about the relationships between those nouns.  Anyways, the burden of proof is not on me to form some type of hypothesis.  Additionally I wouldn't expect such a hypothesis to fall within the realm of science.

 

And, again, nothing you've said addresses the following:

 

If you assume as a starting point the Bible is the "ultimate truth and ultimate guide", then you're beginning with the ultimate confirmation bias.

 

To proceed, you'll need to assume it's all true to begin with, then quietly gloss over all the parts that are patently obscene to present day cultural baselines, and cling tenaciously to everything remaining...

 

 

 

I believe your claim makes no sense, depending on your perspective.  If the word of god is self evident truth, it does not mean it sets a gold standard for anything else.

 

 

You basically have some theories that say life evolved from simple things, and the universe was a dense ball of energy, and it formed into exactly what we want.  You then seem to believe since it's simpler that matter/energy exists forever, and we have a lot of theories explaining life and the universe, as well as religion being proven wrong through history, we have a good starting point to compare theories.

 

If you noticed the big bang fits in with the idea of god perfectly.  In the past you've went on to say religion used to explain lightning, etc, and it's been proven wrong.  All these things are a matter of perspective, tied very closely to faith, since you do not have faith, I wouldn't expect you to agree or possibly understand why these theories are not relevant or weighted heavily.

 

The Bible has added harmony to life? The Bible began infusing division between peoples and creating animosity the second it stated that Jews are Gods "chosen people", indicating that he favors Jews more than anyone else. Maybe from where you view it as a person who has faith in it, you like to only look at the positive aspects of it, but from where I sit, all I see it doing is constantly striving to create division by labeling everyone either sinner or saved, jew or gentile, saint or false prophet.

 

I could also mention how wars, crusades, and genocide has all been carried out because of men fighting over their ideas of proper and correct faith in relation to the Bible, but I don't think that applies to this specific argument. The Bible itself never called for these things to take place after the New Testament was finished being written. These are just things that stupid people have done on their own because they felt compelled to do so after reading a book. It's just a book. It's not inherently good OR evil. It's what PEOPLE allow themselves to do after filling their minds with a books information that is good or evil.

 

 

The way of life derived from the bible did a lot more than "infuse division".  You are talking about major human achievement, the achievment being almost humanity itself.

 

I looked into this chosen people thing.  It seems that the jews are supposed to do good and god will love them for it.  Rather blown out of proportion, and it seems a red herring to point to this division, ignoring fundamental problems.

 

And I have said before, I believe it is 50/50, maybe slightly tilted towards some type of god. So personally I chose unknown.  However, I do like the things churches do, and they are particularly equipped to handle life.  As well I believe it is likely there is some type of god.

 

 

[|iR|Focalor]

Nah, man. That's the M.O. of ALL religions. They codify peoples in groups. Believers and non-believers, etc. The only way a particular religion ever seems to strengthen the bonds of interpersonal relationships is within a group of believers of one specific religion. There is no religion out there which says ALL people are ALREADY wonderful and chosen even when they don't even know it because you haven't told them yet. That type of philosophy would be one and only benchmark for a religion or religious text which truly promotes harmony.

[reaper]

Chrisitianity basically says accept the lord and all is forgiven, it doesn't really single people out.  It actually seems like the opposite don't you think?

 

[Whirlingdervish]

Chrisitianity basically says accept the lord and all is forgiven, it doesn't really single people out.  It actually seems like the opposite don't you think?

 

That would only be part of the basis of protestant christianity, a relatively recent version of the religion when considering how very long it has persisted. Of the many flavors, which one is correct when their claims and ways differ?

try not to forget that Christianity is just an extention of judaism, which comes complete with a Chosen People and unforgiveable sins like blasphemy.

[|iR|Focalor]

Chrisitianity basically says accept the lord and all is forgiven, it doesn't really single people out.  It actually seems like the opposite don't you think?

 

That would only be part of the basis of protestant christianity, a relatively recent version of the religion when considering how very long it has persisted. Of the many flavors, which one is correct when their claims and ways differ?

try not to forget that Christianity is just an extention of judaism, which comes complete with a Chosen People and unforgiveable sins like blasphemy.

Note what I highlighted in red. According to the Bible, even the New Testament, not ALL sins are forgivable. Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is the unforgivable sin. These are the words of Jesus Christ himself. This is starting to get a little off topic I think, but nevertheless this point should be clarified.

[reaper]

I'm sure a preacher or a pope would say that blashphemy of the holy ghost is meant to be: trying to walk the opposite path of god, which I'm sure would qualify as serious crimes from the government.

[fdrjk]

I murdered 20 people and their families right in front of them, but then I became a Christian and all was forgiven!

[reaper]

That is what the religion teaches.  Although I'm sure becoming a Christian involves dramatic changes if you had murdered 20 people.  It also wouldn't mean you don't serve your time or accept any penalities.  There must be something to that Christian thing..

[fdrjk]

I murdered 20 people and their families right in front of them, but then I became a Christian and all was forgiven!

That is what the religion teaches. 

lol

[|iR|Focalor]

I'm sure a preacher or a pope would say that blashphemy of the holy ghost is meant to be: trying to walk the opposite path of god, which I'm sure would qualify as serious crimes from the government.

I don't know what exact point you're trying to make (I seldom do ), but it's pretty fine cut and clear. Blasphemy would be speaking ill of, contradictory to, or lies about the Holy Ghost. I suppose you could say that it's basically being the opposite of a believer. If one does not believe in or have faith in salvation, it is because they have personal thoughts which are contradictory to what the Holy Spirit stands for. I suppose it's the same reason someone could be told about salvation and not accept it. From the way it's used in the Bible, it was used to condemn those who were possessed of demons or were false prophets, those who would speak lies about the salvation brought by the Holy Spirit in an attempt to promote some other falsehood. The way most people think of the word "blasphemy", they probably think of slanderous language or curse words, which would be partially correct. To say, "Fuck the Holy Ghost!" would basically be the same thing as a declaration of rejecting salvation.

So... long story made short... blasphemy of the Holy Ghost equates to rejecting salvation, the one reason someone cannot enter heaven, and the one unpardonable sin.

One can live while rejecting salvation and never commit a crime against the government. It's pretty arrogant to assume that just because someone doesn't believe in the Holy Spirit and salvation that they will automatically be inclined to be murderers, rapists, and thieves. Quadz is an atheist. He has never murdered anyone. And he only kinda raped someone once, he just referred to it as "surprise sex".

This is where many Christians are dead wrong about their own religion. They think that because they're "saved", they aren't capable of committing horrible sins like murder and rape. The Bible never says that. The Bible says that all men have free will and are imperfect. Accepting salvation does not make someone immune to the temptations of sin. There is no distinction between the saved and unsaved in the way that many people assume. We are all imperfect flesh existing in this world of sin inhabited by the devil. Again, salvation does not grant one's flesh immunity from temptation, nor does it automatically mean one will be able to resist that temptation to do evil. The only place your soul will be forever removed from the presence of sin and temptation will be in heaven.

I sound like a preacher now.

Rev. Dr. Creflo Focalor A. Dollar up in dis bitch.