proof once and for all axetogrind walls

[l0ckp1ck]

i don't think you can get much clearer than this. short demo taken by me today on dm1. when he is on frag 4 he enters the MH room and aims rocket right at the YA box and lo and behold someone comes out from behind the stairs a few seconds later. you will see what i mean

[UUD-40]

Did you hear the drop sound, followed by a weapon and ammo pickup. I'm thinking spam for the first shot. Proof? I don't think so!

[l0ckp1ck]

i heard the drop sound but why aim straight at the box? its interesting because months ago i read a thread somewhere that walling is apparent when someone does something like that. why would u spam a rocket at the box straight at where u think the target is? there r also other instances in that demo like when he is on the outside ledge, he crouches looking straight up at the rl seconds before someone appeared, and other small things i saw, and after watching a few other demos i am convinced he walls. it is obvious

[haunted]

can't watch the demo because i'm at work, I'll definitely give my opinion later though 

[erik]

I will say that it was weird to aim at the YA box.  You can clearly hear drop, he fires rocket at box, and then chain/bullets pick up, fire rocket at stairs, gets him coming around the stairs.  I know that I wouldn't shoot at the box if I heard drop to chain, but what can you say?

Other than that single rocket shot, I didn't see anything that screams WH to me.  Crouching at rockets/shards/25health ledge didn't indicate anything, it's pretty easy to hear someone coming that way if you know what to listen for.  He crouches because they have quad and he's trying to minimize damage taken. 

The only way I could actually stand by an accusation is if I viewed each accusatory demo with a wallhack active, so you could see what a wallhacker would see.  Why don't you try that and then report back?

[[BTF] Reflex]

i heard the drop sound but why aim straight at the box?

Looked like a flick shot to me,  hard to aim those precisely.  You kinda just flip one over to the general direction...


Didn't watch demo past number 4.  Maybe later,  a2g is always fun to watch.

[Whirlingdervish]

that looked odd.

see if anything in this demo from that day screams walls to you:

PS: I saw a few interesting spots and I find his ability to spam gl and hit nothing pretty amazing compared to the prediction rockets all of which are dead on... but I'll let you guys point stuff out.

Edit: I made a fraps vid of the dm1 clip with WH so you can watch his tracking in timescale 0.5

[bluemeanies]

strange thing about this guy is that he used to be a deadly dm ffa player...hard to beat...now he's definitely not one of the top dm ffa players and he usually bounces really quick once one of the better players comes in and starts winning maps

not sure if his ability has just slipped from not being as active...but even if he walls it doesn't really seem to help him against decent players

[Whirlingdervish]

The only way I could actually stand by an accusation is if I viewed each accusatory demo with a wallhack active, so you could see what a wallhacker would see.  Why don't you try that and then report back?

unfortunately, watching demos with a wallhack tends to make everyone look like they are walling

I find that watching the demos a few times regular, and once without sound can help. The I'll load up and see if what I think they are doing is matching up with where people are actually at, and how they are lined up with the guys movement.

some things I try to keep in mind:

sometimes the sounds they do/don't react to can tell you important things about their play and the same goes for the way they tend to do the same things or shoot the same way every time. (people are creatures of habit) both of these will help you determine if something seemed out of character for their playstyle, like so:

when you see a person hitting lots of direct rockets on corners, you expect their other spam to be pretty solid too since the rl is way fuckin slow and one of the harder weps to consistently hit with.

when they are always moving like they are 100% sure of what is ahead of them, but never seem to figure out someone's right behind them it can tell you things about what stimuli they are placing more importance on. (visual v auditory)

If they pause regularly to "look" ahead in some odd direction and aren't actually pointing at an opening where an enemy could come from, they could either be "listening" and not very good at movement while doing so, or they could actually be looking (wh). keep in mind that in some maps/situations there is a legit reason to be aiming off to nowhereland with your xhair but it's usually before a circlejump or other very specific movement combination. this is where player movement skill is a giveaway.
if they are actually good at jumping, you shouldn't see a noticeable pause when they do it, it'll look fluid.

[ToRcH]

Alpha, your really out to get him ain't you, well i watched that and i didnt see much of anything but im not a hacker so i dont exactly know to much what to look for but you know, you can exactly always tell if they are trying to win, or trying to just have fun.. a random shot and the box yea that was weird.. but then again ive done alot of crazy shit for no apparent reason.. ive tried to distract people with diff shots at diff locations by multiple weaps.. Im not good at all when it comes to tdm n shit. but back to the topic, i c nothing honestly that you can really pinpoint a wh.

[l0ckp1ck]

well i am not the first to accuse him, way before my time here there have been several threads from different people highly suspect of his play. i don't understand why ac can't be forced just to stop all doubts. if he plays the same with ac, well good on him, but i doubt he will. And i have asked him why he doesn't use ac and he said "because r1ch is a liar", i mean its really just a bs excuse and he says he will leave if he is forced ac. As far as i am concerned anyone who is legit would use it no worries, but when asked he is just a big baby about it, which leads me all the more reason to believe he is atleast walling.

[erik]

He hasn't been proven a cheater, so why force AC on him?  Sounds like a fucking witch hunt. 

I mean honestly, HONESTLY at the end of the day, does it really fuckin bother you enough to go on this lengthy crusade just to force AC on him?  I wouldn't even give a shit if he did wall.  I barely ever see dude on there when I do play DM, and never once have I thought that he was cheating.  Can't we just play in peace? 

[Sgt. Dick]

The rocket he fired at the box did not line up with the player on the other side of the wall.  Why he shot there who knows, but if the player was on this side of the wall it may have caused some splash damage but no where near a direct hit.  After the first shot, he should have heard the chain pick up so firing at the stairs is normal.
I'm not a expert, but I did not see anything that looked like walling.

I say force AC on people ONLY after they have been caught cheating or are suspected by MANY top players and the Admin.  Actually, if they are caught cheating then BAN the mofos.

[haunted]

haven't read any posts on here yet but I did watch the .mpg video. doesn't prove anything at all, imo.

[gaudy]

No signs of cheating in this demo. The shot was spot-proofed spam (the most likely position for the enemy to be while tactically the best angle to hit for A2G at his current y-axis position) that indicates he heard someone drop down to pick up the Chain.

Another indicator at 16 frags with A2G on the lamp. He makes no attempt to spam for an enemy charging down the stairs from lift while he waits for the Railer to head up the stairs. This aligns with a trend of common play patterns and does not lead me to believe he is using any sort of hack. He's just on his game.