Why I'm an Atheist

[fdrjk]

Jesus Christ every F5 I do, there's a new response.

[reaper]

Well, I guess the violence and death comes in when you try to frag anything that's moving and you do your best to splatter their guts all around the place.

Other than that, I agree. Quake 2 is a joyous celebration of love and friendship.

That part of the game is almost superflous, it's just like a backdrop for us to have some fun.

[quadz]

Quadz, I think the principles of natural selection work on every level of the human condition; genetic, social, moral, religious, and so on.

Then please call it something else.  Natural selection in the context of evolution has a specific, gene-centered meaning.  As haunted has attempted to convey to you, many of your examples of "natural selection" are not applicable to genetic evolution.

So when I refer to 'natural selection', I guess I am drawing a longer bow around the concept than those who seek to refute it - I'll admit that, but I believe it completely: There is not one part of any person's life which is not directly influenced by this wider form of natural selection.

Like I said in post #96, it's happening right here and right now, all around us, everywhere.

Again, please call it something else.  What you're talking about is not evolution by natural selection.

It seems you haven't taken the trouble to educate yourself about the mechanisms by which genetic evolution operates.

This has resulted in the sort of 'debate' one is accustomed to having with someone who values faith over evidence (e.g. creationists).  

Since you claim to value scientific evidence, why are you arguing evolution from an unscientific basis?

As I stated in a previous post (#73), I admit that I don't have any 'facts', hence the debate. (Maybe you need to research the word 'debate').

See above.

[|iR|Focalor]

Funny, though, that nearly everyone who has posted on this thread seems to be a religious person... I don't get that. What are they doing on the forum of a computer game that promotes violence and death? I thought their god(s) were all about peace and love.

Maybe they've gone to a better place, Allah willing.

Nice assumption, shit for brains. If horseshoes were hand grenades, you still would not be close.

You didn't "win" any argument. I profiled you from the word go, and as I described you, you aren't here to debate anything. You're here to talk about your feelings as if they are gospel and not to listen to anyone else. You're here to bash on Christians and talk down to them and feel superior. Explaining anything to you is like teaching a pig to sing. It can't be done, and I won't waste my time trying. I shouldn't have wasted my time writing this.

[Tubby]

Quadz, I think the principles of natural selection work on every level of the human condition; genetic, social, moral, religious, and so on.

Then please call it something else.  Natural selection in the context of evolution has a specific, gene-centered meaning.  As haunted has attempted to convey to you, many of your examples of "natural selection" are not applicable to genetic evolution.

So when I refer to 'natural selection', I guess I am drawing a longer bow around the concept than those who seek to refute it - I'll admit that, but I believe it completely: There is not one part of any person's life which is not directly influenced by this wider form of natural selection.

Like I said in post #96, it's happening right here and right now, all around us, everywhere.

Again, please call it something else.  What you're talking about is not evolution by natural selection.

It seems you haven't taken the trouble to educate yourself about the mechanisms by which genetic evolution operates.

This has resulted in the sort of 'debate' one is accustomed to having with someone who values faith over evidence (e.g. creationists).  

Since you claim to value scientific evidence, why are you arguing evolution from an unscientific basis?

As I stated in a previous post (#73), I admit that I don't have any 'facts', hence the debate. (Maybe you need to research the word 'debate').

See above.

Quadz, you make a good point, but what you're saying also assumes that ideas and beliefs - or in this case theories - cannot be adapted to situations for which they were not originally intended.

To me, that's a stagnant and defeatist attitude: Imagine if our ancestors had refused to take the ideas, beliefs, and theories of their own fathers and apply them to the newer, more enlightened world that they found themselves in... We would still be sacrificing children to Moloch.

Sometimes I think that that's what many religious people actually want to do - revert to a primitive state in which things were much more black and white - as you seem to be saying I should also do.

[Tubby]

You didn't "win" any argument. I profiled you from the word go, and as I described you, you aren't here to debate anything. You're here to talk about your feelings as if they are gospel and not to listen to anyone else. You're here to bash on Christians and talk down to them and feel superior. Explaining anything to you is like teaching a pig to sing. It can't be done, and I won't waste my time trying. I shouldn't have wasted my time writing this.

Oh hi Focalor! Thanks for dropping in. Can I offer you a nice cup of tea?

I'm not here to bash anyone Foc. At least that wasn't my intention... All I'm doing is trying to debate the merits of atheism vs. religious belief.

Believe it or not, I was raised a Christian, and attended church every Sunday morning until I was about 13 or 14 - at which stage my parents told me that they would stop 'insisting' that I go to church and instead ask if I wanted to go.

Needless to say, I said 'no thanks' pretty fast.

My olds seemed to accept this, and they now accept that I'm an Atheist really well (surprisingly!)

Or maybe they just admired the fact that I had the courage to stand up to something I didn't believe in.

[Arm0r]

You didn't "win" any argument. I profiled you from the word go, and as I described you, you aren't here to debate anything. You're here to talk about your feelings as if they are gospel and not to listen to anyone else. You're here to bash on Christians and talk down to them and feel superior. Explaining anything to you is like teaching a pig to sing. It can't be done, and I won't waste my time trying. I shouldn't have wasted my time writing this.

Oh hi Focalor! Thanks for dropping in. Can I offer you a nice cup of tea?

I'm not here to bash anyone Foc. At least that wasn't my intention... All I'm doing is trying to debate the merits of atheism vs. religious belief.

Believe it or not, I was raised a Christian, and attended church every Sunday morning until I was about 13 or 14 - at which stage my parents told me that they would stop 'insisting' that I go to church and instead ask if I wanted to go.

Needless to say, I said 'no thanks' pretty fast.

My olds seemed to accept this, and they now accept that I'm an Atheist really well (surprisingly!)

Or maybe they just admired the fact that I had the courage to stand up to something I didn't believe in.

wait...didn't you just spew some argument about how your kids would be raised with your doctrine and do as YOU do?   Seems that little plan of yours didn't work, case in point, YOU. 

[Tubby]

wait...didn't you just spew some argument about how your kids would be raised with your doctrine and do as YOU do?   Seems that little plan of yours didn't work, case in point, YOU. 

ArmOr, my 11 year old daughter frequently wears a Christian Cross around her neck which she got from a school camp held on a Christian - owned property.

I have no problem with that. I have enough faith in my daughter to know that she will eventually be able to decide for herself what she chooses to believe - or not believe - when she gains more understanding of the world as it really is, as opposed to the world as presented to her through the eyes of those who hold fixed beliefs and agenda (including those of myself).

[Arm0r]

If you don't think this looks stupid then you need to seriously evaluate your own chain of thoughts....

For example, I don't take my child to church / synagogue / mosque, etc., therefore she is unlikely to be exposed to the concept of god

my 11 year old daughter frequently wears a Christian Cross around her neck. She got this cross from a school camp she attended which was held on a Christian - owned property.

seems she's already been exposed to the concept of god.  do you read what you write?

Yes, and my offspring will take my ideas and beliefs into the next generation, and your offspring will take yours.

You said this...now it's changed all of a sudden and your daughter will make up her own mind?  Which is it....

[Tubby]

Yes ArmOr, I accept that what I'm saying is somewhat twisted and contradictory - but those two words (twisted & contradictory) are what religion is all about.

As an atheist, I can only fight fire with fire...

[Arm0r]

Yes ArmOr, I accept that what I'm saying is somewhat twisted and contradictory - but those two words (twisted & contradictory) are what religion is all about.

As an atheist, I can only fight fire with fire...

  Look who'se "copping out" now.  You look foolish, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you can't even stay the course on your own logic. 

[quadz]

Quadz, you make a good point, but what you're saying also assumes that ideas and beliefs - or in this case theories - cannot be adapted to situations for which they were not originally intended.

If we use the weak form of 'theory' which is synonymous with 'speculation', then, sure!  Anyone can pull a new 'theory' out of their ass.

"I have a theory..."

It may be possible to adapt a scientific theory "to situations for which they were not originally intended", but not without doing science.

To me, that's a stagnant and defeatist attitude: Imagine if our ancestors had refused to take the ideas, beliefs, and theories of their own fathers and apply them to the newer, more enlightened world that they found themselves in... We would still be sacrificing children to Moloch.

Are you kidding me?  Our ancestors applied endless creativity to inventing new bullshit theories to differentiate themselves from their forefathers.

For someone who claims to value science, you appear not to have the foggiest notion of what differentiates science from bunk.

Sometimes I think that that's what many religious people actually want to do - revert to a primitive state in which things were much more black and white - as you seem to be saying I should also do.

By attempting to hold your arguments and 'theories' to scientific standards, I "seem to be saying" you should revert to a primitive state????????

GTFO & RTFM.

[Tubby]

Yes ArmOr, I accept that what I'm saying is somewhat twisted and contradictory - but those two words (twisted & contradictory) are what religion is all about.

As an atheist, I can only fight fire with fire...

  Look who'se "copping out" now.  You look foolish, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you can't even stay the course on your own logic. 

How am I not 'staying the course' on my own logic? I think I've got it pretty well pegged down. Maybe it's you who needs to re-evaluate your own ideas and beliefs.

Btw, if you think you can take Focalor's path and persecute me for my beliefs, maybe you need to think again: Foc copped out, but I'm still here...

[yahoo]

Now this is what you call interesting.. 

[Tubby]

By attempting to hold your arguments and 'theories' to scientific standards, I "seem to be saying" you should revert to a primitive state????????

Yes. You're implying that my argument should be subject to more primitive ideas around natural selection than those which I am trying to promote.