spawngirl overrides (again)

[quadz]

¡Dios mio!

I received another one of spawngirl's delightful "I hate you" emails over the weekend.

Amazingly, the new one arrived exactly one year to the day after the last one.

Here's last year's:

Subject: Fuck you
From: Laura H_________
Date: 8/21/2009 7:37 PM

YEA IM TELLING YOU FUCK YOU
FUCK YOU ANF FUCK TASTYSPLEEN

I NEVER WIL COME BACK IN MY LIFE
DELETE ALL OF ME
AND YOU CAN PUT XRAZY SERVER IN YOU ASS I DONT GIVE A SHIT

IS CLEAR NOW??????????!!

BYE

Here's the new one.  I'm not sure if she's implying she wants all her overrides removed.

Subject: You did it!
From: Laura H_________
Date: 8/21/2010 11:30 PM


Treachery, deception

    * you know I always worked hard with the illusion of seeing successful xrazy
    * you talk about copyright rules and follows three people who always ruined the fun
    * you ignore the ethics and justice, and betrays our supposed friendship always.
    * when xrazy finally succeeds  you shit on my work and dream giving
      away my effort to a group of three shitty people
    * you use people feeling as a puppeteer. Maybe you are fader. I dont
      know what to think.


What you did not have ethics.

    * You left me no alternative. If I did not give my work, they wanted
      to clone it. With your approval.
    * Many people are leaving tastyspleen for your unethical attitude in
      many aspects.
    * You produce in people desires of having their own servers.
    * That was your idea?
    * I am visiting tastyspleen, is always empty. Increasingly.
    * Meanwhile you celebrate with your dear friends Fader, Ex, and
      Debbie that you stole my work and my illusion fot XTRA.
    * You give priority to shit people.


Why you betrayed

Seeking approval for your unethical decisions you report only part of
the truth, that which is right for you, for example to people like
Peewee. You deliberately withholding information. You see I am slandered
and in the facts: You laugh at that.
I talked many times with you, and you knew my dream: A successful xrazy.
You always have sentences commensurate with the situation, quotes from
enlightened men, according to your concepts.
BUT THE TRUTH IS THAT YOU BETRAYED ME. YOU SHIT ON MY WORK AND EFFORT.
YOU DO NOT DESERVE ALL MY HOURS, DAYS AND MONTHS WORKING FOR TASTYSPLEEN.

You know all this. But I want you to know that I also know how it is.

You have behaved like a liar many times, finally I was right. You killed xrazy.
How to apply all your quotes of shit to this result?
Simple. Tell me who your friends, and I'll tell you who you are.

What is the solution to this?

Non-existent: You systematically destroyed all possibilities.
What am I supposed to do?
What would you do with my situation?
You boast of freedom of expression but you are a repressor and a
dictator. You have no respect for the work of others.
You are an egotist increasingly alone.
Everything comes and goes in life. Remember it well. I can not do
anything to complain about my effort.
But I'm not staying with the darkness. I'm clean. I gave my best.
You?

I hope to soon have money to have my own server. Meanwhile, although I
do not want to do, I hate a lot to you. You pushed me.
You think people are idiots. I have news for you: Is Not my case.

You always defended me in the forum!

Lies. You always say what everyone wants to hear. You erase what you
says with the pencil, using the elbow.

And never talk about my family again because you dont care a shit about
my family.

Spawny

My reply:

Subject: Re: You did it!
From: console <console@tastyspleen....>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 17:00:11

Laura H___________ wrote:
>
> <a lot of nonsense>

> YOU DO NOT DESERVE ALL MY HOURS, DAYS AND MONTHS WORKING FOR TASTYSPLEEN.

If you want the overrides removed from tastyspleen, just say so.

Basically, if she wants her overrides removed, I'll delete them.

Frankly, it's beyond my comprehension why she should be so outraged that her overrides would be included on a server where the map list is democratically chosen.

Hint: If people want your overrides on XTRA, it means they LIKE them, not that they are SHITTING ON THEM.

Anyway, whatever.


Regards,

quadz

[fdrjk]

¡Dios mio!

I received another one of spawngirl's delightful "I hate you" emails over the weekend.

Amazingly, the new one arrived exactly one year to the day after the last one.

Here's last year's:

Subject: Fuck you
From: Laura H_________
Date: 8/21/2009 7:37 PM

YEA IM TELLING YOU FUCK YOU
FUCK YOU ANF FUCK TASTYSPLEEN

I NEVER WIL COME BACK IN MY LIFE
DELETE ALL OF ME
AND YOU CAN PUT XRAZY SERVER IN YOU ASS I DONT GIVE A SHIT

IS CLEAR NOW??????????!!

BYE

Here's the new one.  I'm not sure if she's implying she wants all her overrides removed.

Subject: You did it!
From: Laura H_________
Date: 8/21/2010 11:30 PM


Treachery, deception

    * you know I always worked hard with the illusion of seeing successful xrazy
    * you talk about copyright rules and follows three people who always ruined the fun
    * you ignore the ethics and justice, and betrays our supposed friendship always.
    * when xrazy finally succeeds  you shit on my work and dream giving
      away my effort to a group of three shitty people
    * you use people feeling as a puppeteer. Maybe you are fader. I dont
      know what to think.


What you did not have ethics.

    * You left me no alternative. If I did not give my work, they wanted
      to clone it. With your approval.
    * Many people are leaving tastyspleen for your unethical attitude in
      many aspects.
    * You produce in people desires of having their own servers.
    * That was your idea?
    * I am visiting tastyspleen, is always empty. Increasingly.
    * Meanwhile you celebrate with your dear friends Fader, Ex, and
      Debbie that you stole my work and my illusion fot XTRA.
    * You give priority to shit people.


Why you betrayed

Seeking approval for your unethical decisions you report only part of
the truth, that which is right for you, for example to people like
Peewee. You deliberately withholding information. You see I am slandered
and in the facts: You laugh at that.
I talked many times with you, and you knew my dream: A successful xrazy.
You always have sentences commensurate with the situation, quotes from
enlightened men, according to your concepts.
BUT THE TRUTH IS THAT YOU BETRAYED ME. YOU SHIT ON MY WORK AND EFFORT.
YOU DO NOT DESERVE ALL MY HOURS, DAYS AND MONTHS WORKING FOR TASTYSPLEEN.

You know all this. But I want you to know that I also know how it is.

You have behaved like a liar many times, finally I was right. You killed xrazy.
How to apply all your quotes of shit to this result?
Simple. Tell me who your friends, and I'll tell you who you are.

What is the solution to this?

Non-existent: You systematically destroyed all possibilities.
What am I supposed to do?
What would you do with my situation?
You boast of freedom of expression but you are a repressor and a
dictator. You have no respect for the work of others.
You are an egotist increasingly alone.
Everything comes and goes in life. Remember it well. I can not do
anything to complain about my effort.
But I'm not staying with the darkness. I'm clean. I gave my best.
You?

I hope to soon have money to have my own server. Meanwhile, although I
do not want to do, I hate a lot to you. You pushed me.
You think people are idiots. I have news for you: Is Not my case.

You always defended me in the forum!

Lies. You always say what everyone wants to hear. You erase what you
says with the pencil, using the elbow.

And never talk about my family again because you dont care a shit about
my family.

Spawny

My reply:

Subject: Re: You did it!
From: console <console@tastyspleen....>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 17:00:11

Laura H_________ wrote:
>
> <a lot of nonsense>

> YOU DO NOT DESERVE ALL MY HOURS, DAYS AND MONTHS WORKING FOR TASTYSPLEEN.

If you want the overrides removed from tastyspleen, just say so.

Basically, if she wants her overrides removed, I'll delete them.

Frankly, it's beyond my comprehension why she should be so outraged that her overrides would be included on a server where the map list is democratically chosen.

Hint: If people want your overrides on XTRA, it means they LIKE them, not that they are SHITTING ON THEM.

Anyway, whatever.


Regards,

quadz

*sigh*

By "deleting" the overrides, does she mean removing them from the database AND the servers? Does this mean that I should back them up? 

We love some of spawnys overrides, but she cant go acting like this.

Also, didnt she AGREE to have her overrides on XTRA?

I swear she is fucking batshit insane

Also, we all know spawnys name, theres no use hiding it

[Zeppelin]

How many times she said "I NEVER WIL COME BACK IN MY LIFE"?? 

"IS IN THE LOGS!!!"
"WAS EASY!"
 

[quadz]

Also, didnt she AGREE to have her overrides on XTRA?

Yes, this was July 11, 2010, on IRC:

[23:22:44] <[XZ]Spawny> xrazy is not useful anymore
[23:22:52] <[XZ]Spawny> they turned back the things
[23:24:39] <[XZ]Spawny> well
[23:24:58] <[XZ]Spawny> they just will choose the more played maps and will put them on xtra
[23:25:21] <[XZ]Spawny> if i make a new successful map they will put it in xtra
[23:25:23] <[XZ]Spawny> and like that
[23:25:35] <[XZ]Spawny> then xrazy have no sense anymore
[23:25:37] <[XZ]Spawny> understand?
[23:26:05] <[XZ]Spawny> Ok
[23:26:29] <[XZ]Spawny> I prefer allow them to use my overrides
[23:26:41] <[XZ]Spawny> =/
[23:26:43] <quadz> from a player's point of view, i have my favorite maps to play.... and i know my favorites are different from others' favorites
[23:26:48] <[XZ]Spawny> they can use my overrides
[23:27:52] <[XZ]Spawny> Say in the forum that, i understand that, the cool thing is to see people playing my overrides
[23:28:04] <[XZ]Spawny> and im glad to allow them to use my overrides in xtra
[23:28:24] <[XZ]Spawny> I prefer that before see my work destroyed
[23:28:36] <[XZ]Spawny> no sounds conflict
[23:28:49] <[XZ]Spawny> what do you think?
[23:29:20] <quadz> that seems very positive to me.... plus it gives a chance for people to vote for their favorite xrazy maps, which i think is nice to see

But then on July 24:

[03:42:11] <[XZ]Spawny> These overrides have all my effort and my love. It is very unfair for me that those assholes to use my work on another server.
[03:42:11] <[XZ]Spawny> I thought I could handle it. BUT NO. I feel robbed. Sad. Emptyness. You create original material and you knows how that feels.
[03:42:11] <[XZ]Spawny> The worst part is that you have agreed with three shits.


But, I'll say again:

Frankly, it's beyond my comprehension why she should be so outraged that her overrides would be included on a server where the map list is democratically chosen.

Hint: If people want your overrides on XTRA, it means they LIKE them, not that they are SHITTING ON THEM.

[Whirlingdervish]

[03:42:11] <[XZ]Spawny> I thought I could handle it. BUT NO. I feel robbed. Sad. Emptyness. You create original material and you knows how that feels.

SHE feels robbed? ORIGINAL MATERIAL?!!

What about the guys who actually made the maps that she fucked up with 20mb of stupid music files apiece and covered in powerups and trap pickups? I would be pissed if I'd spent hours (or days in most cases) creating and balancing a map, just to have this twit come along, fugly it up and declare it her own and then deny others the chance to play it over some stupid attention grabbing bullshit.


Situation:

* She holds no legal rights in the US to any of the "content" she provided, and you're not making a profit.
* She's just going to keep dicking you around about it, because you've proven that she can if she wants to.
* She's repeatedly shown that she'll do anything to get attention including dicking you around.

Simplest Solution:

* Tell her to shut the fuck up and go away, and that you will not be accepting any further messages from her.
* Do not remove the overrides from the server since she has no legal standing (she's not being harmed)
* Go about your business.

[[BTF]Gator]

Bullshit, things given to the community are community property.

Done.

Don't like it, start your own server and community and grow it on your own, and do what you like there.

[fdrjk]

She cant handle her own community. When she got muted for racial comments she deleted her entire XZ forums and completely destroyed her community in one fell swoop.

 

[quadz]

She holds no legal rights in the US to any of the "content" she provided

I'm not a lawyer.  But I'm not sure that's true.

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl100.html

[...] most countries offer protection to foreign works under certain conditions that have been greatly simplified by international copyright treaties and conventions. There are two principal international copyright conventions, the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works (Berne Convention) and the Universal Copyright Convention (UCC).

The United States became a member of the Berne Convention on March 1, 1989. It has been a member of the UCC since September 16, 1955. Generally, the works of an author who is a national or domiciliary of a country that is a member of these treaties or works first published in a member country or published within 30 days of first publication in a Berne Convention country may claim protection under the treaties.

etc.

Bullshit, things given to the community are community property.

Emotionally, I'd agree in this context.

However, perhaps due to the nature of my job, I don't take copyright + intellectual property issues lightly.

In my line of work, things can be given to the community without being community property.

Example: http://www.ffmpeg.org/shame.html


Regards,

[Whirlingdervish]

Her overrides are derivative works, most of which were made by ripping the entities list from a map using quark (as x7 showed her before she went ballistic on him) and then altering this list that was originally put into a .bsp by the author of the map.

If she can do that and claim copyright protection beyond what the original mapper claimed on the map, then I can copy/paste part of a published author's work, change a few words and then republish the work as 100% mine and expect even more protection than the guy I stole it from.

Somewhere along the line, the intent of the original author (the map maker in this case) should be taken into account over that of the person who's pretty much plagiarizing their work, and in almost every case, people who made 3rd party maps for this game made them so people could play them on any server at any time regardless of what some south american tart wants.

check the .txt files that come with most q2 maps when the author releases them, and you can verify that this is the case for almost every map. (none have spawngirl clauses)

I doubt she emailed all of the map authors who stated that they expected it to get permission to make a derivative work from their maps, but she expects anyone who uses any of her derivative works in any way to contact her and beg for permission (which she'll deny at a moments notice at some later date)

Her expectations regarding the use of "her" derivative content are above and beyond those of the original authors, who's shoulders she stood on, and as such should not be taken as binding.

[quadz]

Her expectations regarding the use of "her" derivative content are above and beyond those of the original authors, who's shoulders she stood on, and as such should not be taken as binding.

However, no shoulder-standing is required to make an override.  (Referring specifically to the data that is provided to r1ch's override generator.)

For example, I could start completely from scratch in Notepad, and make an override for wddm03.bsp, using absolutely none of your original entity list, and I could make my completely original override Copyright (c) 2010 Hegemony Q. Buttfuncis III, Esq. (my real name, btw.)   

My copyright on my entity list would be separate from your copyright on your .bsp.

So that is essentialy the basis from which I'm arguing these issues.


That said, I'll agree that all the spawngirl overrides are probably derivative works of the original map's entity list to SOME degree.  But those AQ2 maps don't have many spawns to begin with; so I think it's a given not a whole lot was borrowed from them.


Regards,

[fdrjk]

THE POINT IS, I think spawny is now incapable of making rational decisions. She told me herself she WANTS to get banned.

Spawn Girl: what a person cannot do?
Spawn Girl: why a person is banned?
MCS_FaderJok0: Are you going to start hacking now?
Spawn Girl: what have to do a person to be banned?>
Spawn Girl: you know alot of tastysplee
Spawn Girl: n
Spawn Girl: you can be banned for posting links to a cheats website!!
Spawn Girl: http://www.cheatcodesgalore.com/pc/games/Quake_2/
Spawn Girl: http://www.cheatcodesgalore.com/pc/games/Quake_2/
Spawn Girl: http://www.cheatcodesgalore.com/pc/games/Quake_2/

If you go to this link it only shows how to use "cheats" like using noclip. She even FAILED AT POSTING HAX LINKS 

The point is, shes not really doing anyone any good 

[fdrjk]

I got this endearing email from spawny:

To faderjok@*******, x7q2c@*******, exterminader@*********
     
You win!‏

I requested all my overrides deleted of tastyspleen, all my sounds in spawngirlsounds folder and to close xrazy server!
You win =)

Laura.

And all the sounds in spawngirlsounds

Delete all and close xrazy server.
So your friend will make new overrides for the maps I looked with hours of patient dedication!!

GO!

Delete all my overrides, all spawngirlsounds (folder) and close xrazy server.
You can use that server for something else.

=)

Regards

[Whirlingdervish]

Her expectations regarding the use of "her" derivative content are above and beyond those of the original authors, who's shoulders she stood on, and as such should not be taken as binding.

However, no shoulder-standing is required to make an override.  (Referring specifically to the data that is provided to r1ch's override generator.)

For example, I could start completely from scratch in Notepad, and make an override for wddm03.bsp, using absolutely none of your original entity list, and I could make my completely original override Copyright (c) 2010 Hegemony Q. Buttfuncis III, Esq. (my real name, btw.)   

My copyright on my entity list would be separate from your copyright on your .bsp.

So that is essentialy the basis from which I'm arguing these issues.


That said, I'll agree that all the spawngirl overrides are probably derivative works of the original map's entity list to SOME degree.  But those AQ2 maps don't have many spawns to begin with; so I think it's a given not a whole lot was borrowed from them.


Regards,

Original entity lists aside, without using the geometry of the map that was created by someone else (who probably didn't make outlandish claims about intellectual property) how would you place those items on your override so that they are inside the map's boundaries, able to be picked up by players and not stuck in walls? At some point she had to "use" their work to make her "work" which supposedly expands upon theirs.

She's adding an additional layer of conditions for her derivative work that probably negate those set up by the original content's author, which doesn't seem like any sort of protection at all for the original author.

If it works like that, I can release a book by another author, add moustaches to all the illustrations and then stipulate some conditions about the sale of "my" work that are incredibly inane and which go against the intent of the original author who did the lion's share of the work.


btw, this entire discussion is playing into spawndude's hands. he/she just wants attention since we haven't had a thread about him/her in months. Might be a better choice to make an administrative decision so the democratic system isn't hijacked for use as a pulpit for more "poor me!" and "everyone's picking on me!" posts from him/her.

For example, I could start completely from scratch in Notepad, and make an override for wddm03.bsp, using absolutely none of your original entity list, and I could make my completely original override Copyright (c) 2010 Hegemony Q. Buttfuncis III, Esq. (my real name, btw.)   

My copyright on my entity list would be separate from your copyright on your .bsp.

In the interest of being picky for no reason, in the above case your copyright would be entirely yours and any conditions you stipulated regarding use of your work would not interfere with those of the map author since there's a small blurb in the end of each .txt file that accompanies the official releases of that author's maps that says this:

-------------

Legal Crap:    Um... yeah. Like I'm gonna find
      out what you do with this once
      it leaves my hard drive... Feel
      free to distribute this to
      anyone who wants it, and some
      of those who don't. Build on it.
      Use the textures/env. Just don't
      bother me about any bugs, as I
      will not do a damned thing
      about them. enjoy!
-------------

[quadz]

She's adding an additional layer of conditions for her derivative work that probably negate those set up by the original content's author, which doesn't seem like any sort of protection at all for the original author.

If it works like that, I can release a book by another author, add moustaches to all the illustrations and then stipulate some conditions about the sale of "my" work that are incredibly inane and which go against the intent of the original author who did the lion's share of the work.

Part of the difficulty is that it seems to require a fairly explicit licence (e.g. GPL or LGPL or Creative Commons) to ensure that freedoms can't be subtracted by authors of derivite works.

That was one of the problems (as I see it) with the original Q2 "educational" license for the gamexxx.dll source code.  It implicitly allowed closed source modifications.  Which is why we're missing the source for so many old Q2 mods.

So while I agree with you that an override is not useful without the map; the same is true if I develop my own custom gamei386.dll game for Quake2 ... even if I start completely from scratch and posess 100% copyright on my code, my game .dll isn't useful in the absence of the Q2 engine.  Nevertheless, I would still retain the copyright on my own mod.

So...............

:shrug:

[Whirlingdervish]

So can we revisit the option of someone else making derivative versions of spawngirls overrides that are damn near identical but which say "modified by someone else" and are free for use by anyone for anything they want?

I could easily do a batch rename on them, and remove any instance of a spawngirlsound related target_speaker entity using the find/replace function in notepad.

I'd be willing to do this if it meant we'd never have to hear from or about spawndude again.


It would seem that if she can make derivative works and then willfully negate the intent of the original content's author, then we should be able to make derivative works from her overrides and negate her intent to fuck everyone over with this BS.