Help Us Organize Tasty Leagues - Part 1

[[BTF]Jehar]

The Tastyspleen League site is back up (glances up at the top bar)! And right now, it's a blank slate, ready to be filled with the most awesome community tournaments in North America. Before we reboot things, we'd like to make sure we do it right. That means we want to keep things simple, fun, engaging, and keeping NA players involved in competition. Most importantly we want to know what YOU want to see from the tournaments, and we'll be tackling specific aspects of the structure in a series of threads.

Number 1: Pay-ins.
Tournaments are usually free-to-enter and free-to-play, but also, in our experience, free-to-not-care-about-the-matches, and this is the issue that keeps tournaments down. We've all seen it before, 20 people sign up, maybe 8 of them show up consistently to play. There are other issues related to this, such as skill structure, but we were thinking that having small pay-ins (along with CASH PRIZES) would keep people more active in the league.

Here's the basic rundown:
Each skill division would have a small pay-in, ranging from 5 dollars for the lower brackets, and up to 10 for the higher brackets. Money is pooled and divided for the winners, possibly in a 30-20-10 format or a 25-15-10-7-5 format.
Initially, we'll be keeping the tournament sizes pretty small, perhaps 12 slots per division, to keep things tight and interesting. As interest grows, so will the division sizes.

Here, then, is the first question:
Would you be willing to put in a small amount for a cash prize pool? Would this keep you in the tournament?

For the purpose of discussion, feel free to bring up any division-of-prizes tiers, but envision a 12-player bracket initially.

Chime in, everybody!

[console]

Each skill division would have a small pay-in, ranging from 5 dollars for the lower brackets, and up to 10 for the higher brackets. Money is pooled and divided for the winners

Might want to run this by a lawyer. Last time I researched a players-pay-into-pooled-winnings structure for a tourney, my impression was that Big Brother considers this gambling--and as such imposes hefty regulations.


If I'm wrong, so much the better.  But I think it should be looked into...


Regards,

[[BTF]Jehar]

I was wondering along the same lines, so yeah, we don't want to do anything stupidly foolhardy at least

[RailWolf]

From what I understand: This is how a lot of tournaments work actually.....   And it's not illegal

If we as tastyspleen are not profiting then we don't need any legal presence either

[Kyper]

Most fighting game tournaments use this system. Every participant pays whatever fee the director asks, and the total amount is split among the winners. The ones I've been to seem to split the pot 70%/20%/10% amongst the 1st, 2nd and 3rd players respectively.

It might be gambling, I'm uncertain of that though. From what I've read on forums here and there, Japan's fighting game community supposedly doesn't do this 'cause they consider it gambling...

[[BTF]adam]

I would possibly pay yes, if it was made easy to do so. I don't think it's gambling either. You gamble on an outcome of a random event, you arent gambling if you're paying an entry fee to an event where the cash recievers are decided by skill in matches, not say black 32 on a roulette wheel.

[QwazyWabbit]

If the prize is more than $500 you would probably have to file a 1099 form with IRS against the winner. It is taxable even if it's not "gambling" against a game of chance. But it's still called gambling even when you are betting on football or basketball games so under the law it would probably be in that category.

It gets all kinds of complicated when money starts changing hands, the state wants to get their cut and you don't want the IRS telling you Vito is not happy. An entry fee with a non-cash prize like a graphics card or hard disk or flatscreen monitor paid for out of the entry fees might be more easily done.  I'd still talk to a CPA or a lawyer and ask about the potential complications in any case of a fee-based contest.

[[BTF]adam]

thats my point is, we're not betting on the outcome are we? (logically, technically perhaps :<?) just paying an entry fee as such.

[console]

thats my point is, we're not betting on the outcome are we? (logically, technically perhaps :<?) just paying an entry fee as such.

It's all pretty murky to me.  It appears that in the U.S., "sports" betting is even more tightly regulated than other gambling.  But the following, for example, came from a discussion of Colorado state gambling law.  I'm not in Colorado, but I'd not be surprised if it were similar in Calif.:

For “gambling” to occur, three elements must be present: consideration, chance, and reward. These elements are sometimes expressed as “payment, luck, and prize.”

For example, if the consideration component is eliminated and no fee, buy-in or other money is required or solicited from the participants in a tournament, then prizes may be awarded to the player(s) who perform well in the tournament. On the other hand, if an organization charges a donation, fee or other buy-in for a tournament or other event, then it cannot legally distribute prizes based upon who wins or plays well in the tournament or event. Such organization could legally conduct a drawing, door prize or raffle as long as the prizes are randomly awarded and are not tied to success in the tournament or event. Likewise, the organization could legally conduct the tournament for the pure entertainment value alone. By disconnecting the prize from the risk element of the event, such activity would arguably not meet the definition of gambling.

And of course there is SOME luck in Q2 tourneys... spawn location comes to mind...


Regards,

[peewee_RotA]

We actually do have a contact that has done the research for us:

Jim Raymond
http://gamingforcash.net/

We tried to organize one of these a while ago using this site and it fell through due to lack of interest. I've discussed the whole topic with Jim inside and out at the time. He had it all reviewed by someone and the way he was running it was legit.


Apart from that, the whole gambling issue falls on which state it is being held in. Having participants from multiple states may complicate things. I know that in PA, holding a game of chance for the purpose of a non-profit endeavor is legal.

[[BTF]adam]

Bad spawn can be overcome by skill ;>

[console]

Bad spawn can be overcome by skill ;>

Just like a bad hand in poker right?  Oh, wait...

[[BTF]adam]

Bad spawn can be overcome by skill ;>

Just like a bad hand in poker right?  Oh, wait...

Well i'm no poker expert, but I hardly think you can compare QUAKE to POKER. You can't out-aim and out-predict a 7 2 on the deal, you can your opponent after a bad spawn. and you can fold a shit hand with just a chip penalty, you can't fold a spawn but you can outplay a spawn. I actually don't know whether what I just said made any sense xD 

[[BTF] Reflex]

Fold a spawn = kill

One frag penalty


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Not sure on tourney yet,  let you guys mull it out a bit more. 
But I can probably chip 5-20.  Not ATM though,  just fuxked my car up about $250-$500 (More?  I hope not)
Wanna see how we land after this

[Slick Lawyer]

I'd be willing to offer advice on this subject for a nominal fee... which would help pay down my gambling debts.