The Patience of Job

[quadz]

The Patience Of Job

Q. Where did the term “patience of Job” come from?

A. It refers to Job’s refusal to condemn God when Satan was allowed to destroy his family and his livestock, essentially turning him from a rich man into a childless pauper overnight. Instead he entered into a series of dialogs that culminated in a fascinating conversation with God Himself. In the end Job saw the error in his ways, sought forgiveness, and everything was restored.

The main idea running through the Book of Job is that when we justify ourselves, by saying that we don’t deserve to experience catastrophic loss, we condemn God, in effect accusing Him of being unjust.

Had Job not been a sinner, God could not have authorized Satan to torment him, and through his patient attempts to understand this, we learn valuable lessons. “For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.” (Romans 15:4)

Note: I'm not directing my comments at travolta, as he may have no interest in debating this.  But this Job story never made sense to me as a kid, and it makes even less sense to me as an adult.

First of all, how was Job a sinner?  The story goes out of its way to tell us Job was "perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil."

(Interestingly it also says god has multiple sons, but anyway...)

Here's the whole setup...

Job 1 (King James Version)

 1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

 2 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.

 3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.

 4 And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.

 5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

 6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

 7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

 8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

 9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

 10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

 11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

 12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

And, in fact, once "the LORD" allows the torment to begin, the story goes out of its way to point out that Job was not a sinner.

13 And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:

 14 And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them:

 15 And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

 16 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

 17 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

 18 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:

 19 And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

 20 Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,

 21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.

 22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

So, coming back to, "Had Job not been a sinner, God could not have authorized Satan to torment him."

He wasn't a sinner!  Unless we're talking about that fruit and talking snake business!

Quoting Mark Twain in Letters from the Earth:

"The best minds will tell you that when a man has begotten a child he is morally bound to tenderly care for it, protect it from hurt, shield it from disease, clothe it, feed it, bear with its waywardness, lay no hand upon it save in kindness and for its own good, and never in any case inflict upon it a wanton cruelty. God's treatment of his earthly children, every day and every night, is the exact opposite of all that, yet those best minds warmly justify these crimes, condone them, excuse them, and indignantly refuse to regard them as crimes at all, when he commits them. Your country and mine is an interesting one, but there is nothing there that is half so interesting as the human mind."

Right?

I can't think of one moral or useful preachment in the Job story, other than that it makes very plain that 'the LORD' is a less ethical creature than many primates.

[lidz]

I think it all falls in line with the whole fruity snake story, along with GOD allowing evil things to happen to good people for no reason.   

Which simple logic then concludes:

If god will allow satan to get all medieval on my ass for no reason, then I shall have no reason to live righteously.  Unless one believes in the whole, I suffer so that I see the true love of GOD nonsense.

[reaper]

You don't figure out how god's world works, it just is, so I cannot agree with Mark Twain.  And no I don't mean "it just is" like the universe just exists.  Of course god was around, making things the perfect colors etc.

It looks like the story was just trying to point out, bad things happen to good people, get on with your life, even god says to. I mean this with a grain of salt, but not to big of a grain : ).

 

[|iR|Focalor]

That's what Job gets for being so damned perfect. I think the lesson is to live in sin and God won't notice you or have a reason to fuck with you. He can't "test" you if there is no faith to test.

I think I've mentioned this before... but lets apply the motives and principles of this bible story to something a lot easier to understand.

I have this wife, and for the purpose of being a smartass, we'll call her "Jo-Beth". She's so good to me. She always does nice things for me. Every single day when I get home from work, she greets me at the front door wearing absolutely NOTHING but a smile, a beer in one hand, and a loaded bong in the other. She blows me for 30 minutes and never hassles me about the stupid shit that happened during her day. She does everything I ask her to. She never cheats on me and she never even thinks about the possibility of doing so. She proclaims her endless love and adoration for me always. My neighbor who is an asshole and borrowed my lawn mower and then fucked it up beyond repair tells me that he thinks my wife isn't as perfect as I think she is. I say to him, "Oh yeah!?! WELL I'LL SHOW YOU, BUDDY!!!", and I decide to TEST her. So first, I call up all her old boyfriends and invite them to come over to the house one by one while I'm at work to see if one of them is sly enough to talk her into fucking them. That doesn't work. So next I decide to hire someone to kill her whole family including their pets, burn their houses down, burn MY house down, and I give him all my money too so that I'll be flat broke in hopes that she'll leave me and hate me. I also tell him to rape her and give her an extremely rare strain of cancerous leprosy AIDS. Then I tell her that I allowed all of this to happen just to prove to my asshole neighbor that she will always love me no matter what.

I sound like a great husband huh? Oh hell yeah, you'd let your sister marry me!

[quadz]

My neighbor who is an asshole and borrowed my lawn mower and then fucked it up beyond repair tells me that he thinks my wife isn't as perfect as I think she is. I say to him, "Oh yeah!?! WELL I'LL SHOW YOU, BUDDY!!!", and I decide to TEST her.

[[BTF]Sigma]

That was fucking awesome!!!

[travolta]

I grew up Lutheran, went to Sunday School but that's about it. I'd probably pray if I was falling off a cliff or something, otherwise I don't got Jesus.

I was told that quote by a high school Principal of all people a cpl of years ago. He is a wise man. Har har.

Thinking about reading up on ol' Job. Thanks for the discussion.