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Messages - Punk_FAS

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Politics / Re: Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread
« on: April 21, 2020, 12:33:09 AM »
Wasn't just "freedom" you were spreading there Travis buddy.

Here's an apparently real example of someone who didn't take this seriously enough, and likely got sick because of that attitude. The original post was still public on the guy's profile as of a day or two ago (I saw it), but apparently it's been taken down (or is no longer public). As his profile was public, including comments including information about his passing, people were saying nasty stuff about him, his previous comments about the lockdown, etc., so I imagine that's why it was removed and/or his account was disabled.

Politics / Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« on: April 20, 2020, 05:55:16 PM »
I don't know if I'm extending an olive branch here, but I'll list some of my views that aren't in line with those typically embraced by what's considered the left:

I'm pretty pro-police. By that I mean most of the major incidents of supposed police brutality, generally involving a black man and a white police officer, were overblown and/or largely fabricated to try to make the police look bad and the "victim" look good. Hands up don't shoot was a lie, etc. Learning what I have about George Zimmerman since the incident with Trayvon Martin has me thinking he's probably a fairly shitty person, and not someone I'd want to associate with. That said, I think he's essentially completely innocent regarding what happened on the night in question (I followed and researched that case obsessively for quite a while back in 2012-2013 or so).

I take a mostly neutral stance towards transgender stuff as of now. I feel like I don't know enough about it to make an appropriately informed opinion, but I do frequently hear some arguments, by those who would consider themselves on the left, that are very hard to swallow.

I'm not too keen on the "believe accusers" thing, at least with regard to me unequivocally believing someone who I do not know, with regard to an accusation against a person I also do not know. I also feel like that's a situation where I would need more information to reach a fair/reasonable conclusion (particularly about such a serious accusation).

The $15 an hour minimum wage thing - I suppose I'm behind it in principal, but sometimes I wonder why they chose that figure. Why not $14? Why not $16? Was $15 chosen just because it sounds like a big number or was actual math done to arrive at that figure? Perhaps google has explanations for that one, but I haven't bothered looking into it.

Anyway, I don't consider myself a Democrat (I've never registered for a particular party, and would like to avoid it), and although I definitely lean left, I prefer to occupy the center as much as possible. Doing that makes me feel like I have more freedom to have independent thought and in turn I'll hopefully have less of a tendency to make choices based on tribal instincts.

Politics / Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« on: April 20, 2020, 10:00:43 AM »
Remember when you, alongside the lefty media, accused trump of calling the Coronavirus a hoax in his speech? He never did.

I'm not seeing the relevance here.

Politics / Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« on: April 20, 2020, 05:42:10 AM »
False equivalences? They're all manifestations of the same problem: Humans routinely embrace bogus beliefs that confirm their biases.

I lament the fact that much of the right is anti-science right now... in response, you bring up some fringe beliefs/practices of some of those who likely identify as being on the left as being an equal comparison. Those aren't equivalent. The right, or Conservatives in general, as a movement, all the way up to the President, deny climate change, deny evolution, and now it's spilling over into the Covid-19 pandemic. The left, as an entire movement, simply doesn't do that. When it comes to science, the left is much more reverent towards its benefits towards society and the right is much more dismissive and doubtful without justification. The right embraces religiosity instead (because when they conflict, and they very often do, the right sides with religion).

Politics / Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« on: April 19, 2020, 03:01:33 PM »
Who wants, or demands, special privileges for their irrational beliefs? Mostly Christians here (but this would apply to other religions as well). Who wants to be able to congregate in churches right now, despite the Covid-19 situation, and who believe that God will protect them? Who is then going to get sick and spread this disease around to other people who don't also go to those same churches, and will potentially have to face shortages of ventilators because of these people's foolishness? It certainly won't just be Christians. Which side of the political aisle do you think every last one of those people reside on? Religious beliefs are such a hindrance to improving the actual quality of life in this country in so many ways.

Politics / Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« on: April 19, 2020, 02:52:20 PM »
In other words you think Christians should say, "Yeah, we read the bible, but we think it's bullshit... and we dunno why we keep doing it. Eh, Whatever." :dohdohdoh:

I don't understand your constant preoccupation with Christians. Maybe they have special interest groups trying to oppress women by keeping abortion illegal... but other than that, they really aren't influencing enough things to regard them as often as you do.

Embryonic stem cell research, and other things that offer truly groundbreaking and revolutionary advancements with regard to treating all sorts of ailments, diseases, etc., are held back in the name of religious belief. Anything that supposedly attempts to "play god" is recoiled at by the religious sect of the right (which is the vast majority of those who identify as Conservative/Republican). And it's way more than merely abortion opposition, although so many on the right are single-issue voters that they can be manipulated into voting against policies that are in their best interests if it requires them to also vote for someone who is pro-choice. The vast majority of those who are "pro-life" are that way because of religious beliefs.

Christians are also pushing for special privileges and the right to discriminate against those who don't share their beliefs.

Politics / Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« on: April 19, 2020, 02:49:13 PM »
Quote from: Punk_FAS
What does the left deny to the extent the right does in regard to anthropogenic climate change?

There's plenty of people on the right who think this about climate change:

'The earth is currently getting warmer naturally, and humans are increasing the rate of this warming period, but we're unsure how bad this is or what it even means.'

If the left comes out and says the world is going to suffer in a major way in 10 years due to climate change and the right calls THAT a hoax specifically, are you labeling "the right" as science deniers?

In other words, there's no scientific view that the left denies to the same extent the right does with regard to anthropogenic climate change.

Also, anybody on the right with that opinion is not a scientist, so their opinion shouldn't matter whatsoever - it doesn't when it comes down to what's factual and what's not, but, unfortunately, it does politically. There's simply no comparison with regard to science denialism on the right versus left. That doesn't mean the left gets everything right by any means, but science is anathema in so many ways to so much of what the right embraces.

Politics / Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« on: April 19, 2020, 10:16:14 AM »
Some classic examples of the anti-science left

Most of those are false equivalences (nuclear being the strongest exception). What does the left deny to the extent the right does in regard to anthropogenic climate change?

Every political faction is anti-science when science runs counter to what their ideology states 'must be believed.'

Perhaps, but it's simply not true to suggest that each political faction equally embraces scientific knowledge to drive and refine their ideologies. The right's biggest flaw is its marriage to religion (particularly Christianity), and religion's inherent flaw in that it cannot admit refinement is needed and also maintain its claims of being inerrant, or divinely inspired.

Politics / Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« on: April 16, 2020, 11:33:53 AM »
It's depressing how many people rely on Fox News channel as their only and/or primary source of news, not realizing, or not caring, that they are essentially Trump's mouthpiece and propaganda wing. They are to some degree limited to what they can say or share because of a concern of upsetting Trump (since he watches them non-stop as well). It's so depressing how anti-science so many on the right are.

Politics / Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« on: April 16, 2020, 08:33:48 AM »
haunted, did you ever watch this video? One of your comments after I posted it said you were going to, but you edited or deleted that comment for some reason. It's less than two minutes long, check it out:

Politics / Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« on: April 14, 2020, 12:57:07 AM »
it's very easy to see how weak this video is in an attempt to show... I'm still not exactly sure what it's trying to say. Maybe it's just doing such a poor job of conveying some sort of message, and that's why I don't see it.

Let's try a thought experiment:

Imagine someone presents you with a contract stipulating they'll pay you $10,000 in exchange for you merely being able to accurately gauge the intent of the video in question.

It's trying to suggest that "the media" downplayed the virus at the beginning of the situation, I guess. And then that some governors have complimented Trump, and/or his team, for the support he/they have provided.

Have you watched the Fox clip compilation that I shared? What are your thoughts on that, particularly contrasted with what Trump just shared (haunted's video)?

Politics / Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« on: April 13, 2020, 11:35:25 PM »
I wonder how frequently this would be shown if Obama had something similar. Trump says it? No problem.

Politics / Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« on: April 13, 2020, 11:27:54 PM »
Trump video haunted shared:

First woman - she stresses "right now". Also, who is she? why is what she says relevant? If Trump is going to have someone make a video he can present as some sort of argument that the press has been unfair to him (is that what this is partially supposed to do?), why not include such obviously pertinent details (at least who the woman is). How hard would it be to overlay her name? What bout Hannity on Jan 27th? Is the significance of his inclusion there him asking the question "What if it is worse?" Worse where? When? There's zero context here. What was discussed immediately prior to that comment? Should US officials get involved... where? in China? There's no context for what he's asking there. I guess Trump felt obligated to find something to try to make Hannity look good regarding his earlier comments about this thing.

Seriously, watch this video if you haven't already. Fox News is essentially Trump's propaganda outlet/mouthpiece. The video Trump shared at the press conference included Hannity saying something (without context) on January 27th. Fast forward, and take into account all the gained knowledge a month and a half later regarding Covid-19, and watch Hannity echoing Trump's talking points then, and then when Trump's tone changes in the coming days (declaring a national emergency on the 13th) how Hannity then falls in line. It's so ridiculously transparent if you pause for a moment to actually look:

Back to Breitbart's video shared by haunted:

Later, "President Trump orders free telehealth screenings" - This is for medicare recipients only, and how are they going to diagnose, conclusively, Covid-19 via a web chat? You have to be tested.

Later, "He was accused of making a racist move" - They show Pelosi, but quote The Hill. Which was it? Was it The Hill quoting Pelosi? Was it not Pelosi at all and this is an attack against her? On that day Trump expanded travel restrictions to mostly African countries. Pelosi didn't (not that I can find) call the move (to restrict incoming flights from China in an effort to control the spread of Covid-19) racist. This is propaganda and totally dishonest.

"NYT's Haberman hits Trump over 'misleading' audio on her coronavirus reporting"

"Their use of the audio is misleading," Haberman tweeted. "I went on to say I said he treated that travel limitation as a Mission Accomplished moment."

"And then he did basically nothing for over a month. Which was our story yesterday," she added in another tweet.

Again, no date for when Cuomo commended Trump's team (not Trump, yet Trump is taking credit of course). No date for CA governor's comments either.

Ron DeSantis (governor of my state) is a Trump bootlicker, essentially. Nothing remotely significant about him saying nice things about Trump. His comments are super generic too, "The President has been outstanding".

New Jersey governor asks Trump if his state can have access to a portion of the beds on the ship docked off the coast there, and Trump says yes - wow! Trump is so merciful to not deny the citizens of the state of NJ beds on that ship despite the governor being a Democrat!

Then Arizona's governor, who campaigned with/for Trump during Trump's election, has gracious things to say about Trump. Wow, shocker!

Again, who is the last guy?

Haunted, with a minimal amount of effort, it's very easy to see how weak this video is in an attempt to show... I'm still not exactly sure what it's trying to say. Maybe it's just doing such a poor job of conveying some sort of message, and that's why I don't see it.

Politics / Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« on: April 13, 2020, 09:29:02 PM »
If Trump decides to fire Dr. Fauci, would you guys support that decision? Fauci did an interview in the past few days (I don't recall which news outlet), and in that interview he commented that lives would have been saved if action had been taken sooner. I presume that there was some sort of implication that Trump didn't act as swiftly as Fauci, or the CDC, or otherwise relevant experts had advised him to, and that directly lead to some increase in the impact Covid-19 has had on the country.

Of course that can be interpreted as a direct criticism of Trump's decisions, and I think it's fair to say that that never comes without a cost if you're working for Trump. Trump retweeted something a day or two ago that had the #firefauci hashtag on it (but that didn't appear to be the focus of the Tweet - it was at the bottom). Because of that, and because of Fauci's apparent admission that Trump didn't do everything perfectly, the talk of Fauci being fired has been discussed. On various social media outlets it's full blown - many people want Fauci fired (because of his criticism, and of course other added-in likely-imagined narratives about him working under/for the Obama admin, etc., and therefore he's compromised, or has an "agenda").

So, Fauci doesn't toe the line, and gets fired - you guys for it?

Politics / Re: Current Politics & History Only Thread
« on: April 13, 2020, 09:20:28 PM »
First video is pretty tastyspleen-forums-esque in proving a point(the real life version of "owning" someone in an e-argument).

I'm not really sure what point the video was trying to make. People have commended Tump's actions regarding Covid-19, and some of them have done it on camera? They don't even list the name of the last guy in the video - who is he? why is what he says relevant? The quote from NY's Cuomo wasn't given a date - when did he say that? Same with California's governor.

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